Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

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17 Jul 2015 01:05 #198088 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Adder wrote: My concern is that it will not be the military which is reduced by a reduction in the tax income to the Fed Gov... unless it reached such a threshold that it was a serious burden on the economy - but in the meantime most every other area of Fed Gov services/projects would have been crippled. IMO they'd wipe NASA out before they'd wipe out any one part of the DoD.

This isn't exactly what happens. What happens is as more people with-hold their money, the politicians must decide what to fund. When 100% of tax revenue is used for war, you give the gov't $0 and it's a decision made by politicians.

Avalonslight wrote: If person A chooses to not pay all their taxes due to a religious objection against it going to the DoD and courts agree, then Person B can claim religious objections against it going to. . . science programs or the healthcare system or transportation or. . . . basically anything..

This is exactly what the Amish do with Social Security. They don't pay it and have a religious exemption. There are also companies that have won the right to not pay for abortions(through obamacare) based on religious objections. This isn't really new territory, it's a well-established practice.

Alethea Thompson wrote: You point me in the direction of doctrine for the US MILITARY that states we use torture. Whyte Horse, you have obviously been suckered into believing the acts of a few MILITARY personnel using torture tactics was condoned by the higher military officials as being LEGAL, and it IS NOT legal by ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

I met a torturer while at University. He was in the Kuwait military before joining the US military. We have mountains of credible and reliable evidence the US military was and is using torture, assassination, and just about every war crime we have a name for. The mere fact that you don't have access to that classified information doesn't mean it is non-existent.
Well you can just watch it online now and see for yourself... OK so it wasn't a US soldier doing the actual torture, it was just a soldier watching and ordering it. Time to wake up


Anyhow, in my opinion, man, torture is just another degree of war and war altogether is complete and utter BS. I don't think it's ethical to ask people to pay money to support torture, war, etc.
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17 Jul 2015 01:23 #198090 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Whyte Horse wrote:

Adder wrote: My concern is that it will not be the military which is reduced by a reduction in the tax income to the Fed Gov... unless it reached such a threshold that it was a serious burden on the economy - but in the meantime most every other area of Fed Gov services/projects would have been crippled. IMO they'd wipe NASA out before they'd wipe out any one part of the DoD.

This isn't exactly what happens. What happens is as more people with-hold their money, the politicians must decide what to fund. When 100% of tax revenue is used for war, you give the gov't $0 and it's a decision made by politicians.


Maybe eventually, but it would be one of the last things to be squeezed IMO, and you'd have to have the majority of business on side as I think that is where most of the tax revenue is from anyway... and not all business has the citizen as the consumer. In the meantime you could be risking security. I understand the concern at its heart, but I'm not sure I'd support the method.
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17 Jul 2015 01:35 #198091 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Adder wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote:

Adder wrote: My concern is that it will not be the military which is reduced by a reduction in the tax income to the Fed Gov... unless it reached such a threshold that it was a serious burden on the economy - but in the meantime most every other area of Fed Gov services/projects would have been crippled. IMO they'd wipe NASA out before they'd wipe out any one part of the DoD.

This isn't exactly what happens. What happens is as more people with-hold their money, the politicians must decide what to fund. When 100% of tax revenue is used for war, you give the gov't $0 and it's a decision made by politicians.


Maybe eventually, but it would be one of the last things to be squeezed IMO, and you'd have to have the majority of business on side as I think that is where most of the tax revenue is from anyway... and not all business has the citizen as the consumer. In the meantime you could be risking security. I understand the concern at its heart, but I'm not sure I'd support the method.

This is the funny paradox of capitalism and oligarchy. On the one hand, you need businesses to support your wars... on the other hand you need to fool enough voters to get your people into office. So the politicians supporting the war businesses have nothing to offer the people, other than 100% of their money will go to war.
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17 Jul 2015 07:56 #198118 by
Replied by on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Whyte Horse wrote: This is the funny paradox of capitalism and oligarchy. On the one hand, you need businesses to support your wars... on the other hand you need to fool enough voters to get your people into office. So the politicians supporting the war businesses have nothing to offer the people, other than 100% of their money will go to war.


oligarchy
TY WH and wise geek (where I looked up the word).

root words
oligos
archo

notes to myself: relativity to present era systems of application as in "social" "com" "demo"
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17 Jul 2015 12:43 - 17 Jul 2015 12:44 #198131 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)
To which I will point out: IT IS ILLEGAL. We (military overall) do not tell our service members that they are allowed to use such tactics- period. We condemn it, and if these people were/are caught, they were/will be charged by a court.

Just because something happens, does not make it legal or acceptable by our standards. We do not say "We use torture", we say "Let us find out who IS using torture, and we're going to 'nail them to a wall'". So no, the US Military does not condone the use of torture, but we have some people that lack the values we try to instill in them.

NOTE: For the record, in most Islamic Countries, honor killings are illegal as well, but people still practice it. Doesn't mean that it is something their government condones.
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Last edit: 17 Jul 2015 12:44 by Alethea Thompson.
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17 Jul 2015 20:38 #198177 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Alethea Thompson wrote: To which I will point out: IT IS ILLEGAL.

Is it also illegal to look the other way while "allied forces" do the torturing?
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17 Jul 2015 21:24 #198179 by
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Whyte Horse wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: To which I will point out: IT IS ILLEGAL.

Is it also illegal to look the other way while "allied forces" do the torturing?


Yes. Yes it is. That would be a form of assisting in the act as it shows the willingness to let it happen. One can be charged for allowing something to happen when they could've done something to either stop or prevent it. If one knows something is happening and are unwilling to help stop it, they are just as guilty.

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17 Jul 2015 23:02 #198181 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Luthien wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote:

Alethea Thompson wrote: To which I will point out: IT IS ILLEGAL.

Is it also illegal to look the other way while "allied forces" do the torturing?


Yes. Yes it is. That would be a form of assisting in the act as it shows the willingness to let it happen. One can be charged for allowing something to happen when they could've done something to either stop or prevent it. If one knows something is happening and are unwilling to help stop it, they are just as guilty.

Great! So when do we start throwing them in jail?
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17 Jul 2015 23:22 #198183 by Alethea Thompson
Replied by Alethea Thompson on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)
You'll need to amount the evidence against them, testimony, etc, take it to the media. That should be good enough.

Except that you'll need a LOT of evidence to prove it so far removed in time. If they have video or photos that you can get ahold of, that should be sufficient to make an attempt. But your word that someone told you alone? It's not enough.
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18 Jul 2015 04:21 #198192 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Alethea Thompson wrote: You'll need to amount the evidence against them, testimony, etc, take it to the media. That should be good enough.

Except that you'll need a LOT of evidence to prove it so far removed in time. If they have video or photos that you can get ahold of, that should be sufficient to make an attempt. But your word that someone told you alone? It's not enough.

Been there, done that... UN Report
Here's the full text:
Warning: Spoiler!

So, when do we arrest them?
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