Conscientious Objection to Military Taxation(COMT)

Princeton University on USA oligarcarchy
http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/11/princeton-makes-it-official-usa-has-become-oligarchy-no-democracy/

on the torture discussion - imo one of the biggest problems with this issue is that the people really responsible, the ones who made the decisions at the higher levels, are allowed to evade accountability, always, and the image of the entire military gets brought down by the command decisions of people who do not have to face any sort of accounting for their influence

they always call the tune but they dont ever pay the piper

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/cia-torture-report/

Okay, so let's address this:

They should be arrested, your right. BUT:

CIA is not a military organization. There are 5 military organizations in the United States, they are as follows: Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard. CIA is none of these. A prison guard is not allowed into the meeting between an intelligence operative and the person they are interrogating. If a guard is to be anywhere for immediate assistance, it is outside of the door where they cannot hear what is going on, but within ear shot of someone opening the door calling for assistance. If the abuse is not something they can physically ascertain from looking at the interrogated then they cannot be held accountable for failure to report. The physician may or may not get an opportunity to exam the interrogated until the physical signs of torture are gone, and thus cannot be held accountable either for not reporting the abuse- as they did not know.

There is also no way of knowing whether or not the guards or physicians DID try to report the problem, but it was suppressed at a higher level. So, let me ask you Whyte Horse, who do you think needs to be arrested? The answer you should be giving is "I don't know". Which is the same answer I would give. But someone needs to be held accountable, on that I would agree.

A full investigation on who actually did the torturing should be looked into, get the names of specific people, and then get the names of those which did not report what happened provided they knew. The Special Forces team mentioned in the article should also have a full review to determine whether or not they were personally involved in the use of torture/knew about torture.

If you want to see it happen, how about lobbying for the investigation to take place?

We know the defense budget is used for the CIA. We also know where all the black sites are and who worked there and when. We know who was tortured(or some of them) and when they were in a black site.

Anyhow, there's a 2000 page report that the senate+congress received and they didn't do anything about it so I doubt lobbying will work. At this point, the only option is to stop funding it.

Oh and don't get me started on all the other war crimes and violations of people's rights both in the US and abroad.

If the DoD Isn't funded, people like me don't get paid.

In the unlikely event that enough people stopped paying taxes (or specifically DoD taxes) I can almost guarantee that it's the enlisted military that'll get hit first. They won't cut CIA funding.

Kamizu wrote: If the DoD Isn't funded, people like me don't get paid.

In the unlikely event that enough people stopped paying taxes (or specifically DoD taxes) I can almost guarantee that it's the enlisted military that'll get hit first. They won't cut CIA funding.

Well no.... Other programs will... Healthcare, NASA, education....

But then yes, the common everyday military person.

one thing a motion such as this COMT thing would do is that it would produce a statistical foundation for public support - so if enough people were to go for this, then some flower power politician down the road could look at that and say "hey this is a legitimate platform - i agree with this idea and theres X number of people who would back me up"

which could actually result in some kind of policy change one day - unless we are an oligarchy

but if we are an oligarchy, (which i agree we are) then the question becomes "how does the average citizen effect actual change in an oligarchial system?"

im not confident that the filing of any sort of tax form would do this

OB1Shinobi wrote: one thing a motion such as this COMT thing would do is that it would produce a statistical foundation for public support - so if enough people were to go for this, then some flower power politician down the road could look at that and say "hey this is a legitimate platform - i agree with this idea and theres X number of people who would back me up"

Yes this is what the legislation is for. It sets up a peace fund and your tax money goes there instead of to the military, but as you correctly noted:

OB1Shinobi wrote: which could actually result in some kind of policy change one day - unless we are an oligarchy

but if we are an oligarchy, (which i agree we are) then the question becomes "how does the average citizen effect actual change in an oligarchial system?"

im not confident that the filing of any sort of tax form would do this

Yes we are an oligarchy and the only known, effective solution involves a guillotine and redistribution.

In the end, I can't control what other people think and do. I can just control myself. If people want endless war then go ahead, just find some other way to pay for it rather than forcing me to pay for it. It's similar to how I solve global warming: ride a bike. So what if nobody else rides a bike... oh well, that's their problem. I made my choice and they made theirs. Que sera sera

Kamizu wrote: If the DoD Isn't funded, people like me don't get paid.

In the unlikely event that enough people stopped paying taxes (or specifically DoD taxes) I can almost guarantee that it's the enlisted military that'll get hit first. They won't cut CIA funding.

How unfortunate... but an army without soldiers isn't really an army after all, now is it? Which would make the CIA... well nobody, really. I hear the peace corps is hiring. When I was in the Army, the pay wasn't very good when you factor in the 14hr days...

I think what's more likely to happen is a greater share of taxes will go to the military while austerity is applied to the general public. When 90% of taxes go to pay for war while people starve in the streets, I'll be holding back 90% while others who support the wars pay the lions share. Seems fair to me.

Well, with things as they are, the government goes into wars that I don't support, benefits certain people and companies for reasons that I don't support, lets the wrong people off the hook, creates laws that I don't support, and generally does things that I don't support all across the board, right down to toll roads. (Seriously, whose idea was toll roads? It's awful. Get rid of it.) Since that's the case, and since I think my money will be poorly invested if I pay my taxes, what obligation do I have to pay the government money? Just for the privilege of living in the country and working for someone else who happens to own a business in this particular country? And I have to pay you taxes JUST BECAUSE I have an income, really?
Then you take it a step further. Even after I've paid your unfair taxes which go to support things that I don't want to support, whenever I go to buy something, even online, you charge me more taxes. So now you're charging me for making money and you're charging me for spending money.
But now, due to HR-4646, I'm even being charged money for saving money. So I can't acquire, save, or spend money without the government stealing it from me unjustly and using it to fund whatever they feel like funding.

As it stands, the only reason that I'd pay taxes is the government taking part in actively making this country a better place. That, and the threat of punishment. The government is a bit like a mugger, who comes up to you on the street, puts a knife to your throat, and tells you to give them your wallet.

In an ideal system, you would choose where your tax money goes. But we're not going to see that happen, realistically.

We're supposed to have democracy but we have oligarchy. It's called taxation without representation. I think everyone should join the tax protest but they won't because they're scared that the gov't will come take away their bank-owned house.