The Fremen.....

I love the '84 movie... but I'd probably end up sneezing heaps if I found myself on a planet of cinnamon-esk spice :sick:

I too dig the Bene Gesserit and like mixing that up with the Dathomirian witches, then conflate it with Vajrayanic Dakini's and historical Witchcraft to end up with some weird mix. Not so much interest in the Fremen but I'd love to read more on it.

I love this topic. :laugh:

Big DUNE fan ever since I first watched the '84 film as a kid. I've read the main novel a couple of times and I know some of the expanded works, but I've never delved into them. Maybe that's what I'll read next! I've been feeling a need to read coming on.

I definitely identify with aspects of the Fremen ideology though - there's something very appealing to me. Perhaps because I was raised with a strong Native American cultural focus, and the Fremen fit that sort of 'one with nature' nomadic archetype.

ChesShadowkin wrote: Does anyone else here identify as or with the Fremen? How does one combine the teachings of the Temple with the structure and culture of the Fremen? (What bits we are able to piece together from books and forums that is)

They are in many ways similar to the ancient Spartan civilisation, and they have the same shortfalls too - they are too bound by tradition and this makes them easy to manipulate. This is why the Lady Jessica was liked by the Shadow Mapes, the Missionaria Protectia is blindly adhered to as sacred tradition. By obsessing over the tribe they don't develop individual thinking, one could say an equally bad problem, but in reverse, is true of most everyone else however.

There is a proper Bene Gesserit book for applicable philosophy and goals, I don't know how "official" it was, but it was added to the library a while ago, I forgot who recommended it, but they then asked me to take it down after reading more of it. Long story short while Sithism is mistakenly given a bad rep for adhering to the fictional Sith, based on this book similar accusations against the Bene Gesserit would, worryingly, be rather appropriate. The stated goals of the Bene Gesserit are, afterall, a political stranglehold on all the noble houses so they can breed the Kwisatz Haderach, for what purpose? So they can control the Kwisatz Haderach and enact their own plans. They are the passive female which the universe acts upon, the Kwisatz Haderach is the active male who acts against the universe (that's why he can go where no female dares).

How do they achieve their ends? Manipulation, control, seduction and secrecy. There may be more works inspired by their methods (the name of which escapes me for the moment), and of course their practices (prana-bindu etc) aren't inherently evil, but it's not like the Bene Gesserit of the fiction are "good".

RyuJin wrote: i always considered fremen to be a play on the words "free men" since everyone else served the emperor, the navigators, or the sisterhood whereas the fremen were free men (and women), they served no one....

I think of this...



FYI, totally aware I may have messed up some of those spellings, damn the crazy names given to everything! (also no spoilers because I'm only 70 pages through the third book!)

i really love the dune series

heres a pdf of the first book

http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/H/He/Herbert_Frank_-_Dune.pdf

at a certain point in the book it specifically says "the free men of the deep desert"

i had the idea that their strict tribalism was a consequence of the demands of their lives
also i had the sense they were modeled after some of the tribal desert cultures of the middle east, like the afghans, who, despite the negative connotations associated with the mujahideen are historically very well respected - even admired - as warriors and "freedom fighters" by western civilization

the afghan struggle with the soviet union comes to mind

also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Catholic_Bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dune_religions

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit

"The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness."

Thank you Obi1 and Akkarin for giving me things to ponder.

ChesShadowkin wrote: Does anyone else here identify as or with the Fremen?

*whispers*

Ya hya chouhada.

steamboat28 wrote: *whispers*

Ya hya chouhada.

Long Live the Fighters indeed.

My feeling is that most (if not all) of the subcultures and individual spiritual philosophies in the Dune series are compatible with the teachings of Jediism and the Temple. If you're patient, willing to work with ideas to see if they 'play well' with other beliefs you may already have in place, and don't have problems expanding beyond the fiction (and in some cases moving past it to force certain intersections), then you shouldn't have any trouble piecing something together that feels 'right' to you.

Khaos' comment about fictional and occult sources and what can be seen as "real and valid" seemed in line with my (if it works, use it) understanding of spirituality. Whether or not a source is considered 'real', what you take from it can be beneficial and effective, and practical ideas and techniques can be extracted from that source and utilized in a positive (or negative) manner within (or as) one's own belief system.

The hardest part of working with fiction in a spiritual sense, I think, is getting over that barrier that most of us have in place that advises, "Everything past this point is just fiction. It's not legitimate or suitable material for anything other than entertainment." So, for me, part of learning how to integrate aspects of Dune into my belief system involved breaking down much of that barrier.

For many years, there was a little voice in the back of my head saying, "This is fiction. It's not real. It won't work." In my case, I silenced the voice by repeatedly pushing back that barrier until it was far enough outside my view that it didn't affect me anymore. I did that mainly by working consistently with even more ridiculous, less spiritually oriented fiction in a spiritual context.

I think modeling at least part of your belief system on the Fremen is a wonderful idea, and given time and some serious thought you should be able to develop a spiritual framework that makes sense to you. Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't focus too much on creating something that works for other people, unless that approach or that type of validation is of concern to you at this point. As you come to understand your system, it will become easier and more natural to share with others.

In terms of actual ideas that can be pulled from the books... obviously, you need to begin eating a lot of spice, get some blue contacts, and wear your stillsuit at all times.

In seriousness, the Fremen are of course very tribal/one with their environment (as Locksley pointed out), so that's a good place to start. A large part of their identity is survival and being able to work with nature. They also have a warrior element, along with a strong sense of unity and brotherhood (Ichwan Bedwine). Fremen belief in prophecies, Shai-Hulud (i.e., the physical embodiment of their view of god), and water as equivalent to life - these are all worth examining as well.

Their beliefs originated in the Zensunni tradition, which (according to the fiction) is a syncretic religion based on Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam . Hopefully, that alone gives you quite a bit to go on.

All the best to you, Cheshire, and good luck. If you want to talk about any of this, please feel free to send me a PM. You know I'm always up for conversations about Dune.

Arcade wrote: In seriousness, the Fremen are of course very tribal/one with their environment (as Locksley pointed out), so that's a good place to start. A large part of their identity is survival and being able to work with nature. They also have a warrior element, along with a strong sense of unity and brotherhood (Ichwan Bedwine). Fremen belief in prophecies, Shai-Hulud (i.e., the physical embodiment of their view of god), and water as equivalent to life - these are all worth examining as well.

Don't forget the tribal orgies :whistle: