The value of Faith

Edan wrote:

Gisteron wrote:

Rickie The Grey wrote: No need to defend it, just have faith that you are right.

Or.... OOOOORRRR.... test whether or not you actually are! And if you have no evidence to go on, just admit to yourself that you have no bloody clue and go try and find a clue.

...Based on my own experience, it seems silly to go on believing something you can't defend from yourself.

Maybe for you and that is OK. The very essence of my faith is faith and I'm OK if you think it's silly.

Rickie The Grey wrote: I'm not following you?

Well, that's helpful. Let me try and resolve this. Oh, wait, you didn't actually say what it is you are having trouble understanding. Oh, well.

I just have faith.

So do these people . Also, as I mentioned before, you can replace "to have faith" with "to believe" and nothing will have changed. Would you respect anyone who "just believes" anything? As I said, I think that's really stupid, but we also know it is dangerous. Faith is not a virtue .

PS Your choice of words is rather provoking. Is that your intention or are you just busting my rocks?

Unless I'm being obviously and deliberately sarcastic (and I try to make it obvious and apologize if I fail doing so), I do mean everything I say. Now, if my words were provoking to you this time, I can't say that was my intention though I am in no way sorry that they had that effect. If nothing else they'd be more of a nudge that way and I think that may be a good thing every now and again.

Based on my own experience, it seems silly to go on believing something you can't defend from yourself.

Maybe for you and that is OK. The very essence of my faith is faith and I'm OK if you think it's silly.

If you look up what " silly " means, you'll find that maybe, just maybe, she might have something of a point there...

I "just believe" in the wonder and power of the unknown. This way I don't have to prove anything and I can still feel the awe that the universe inspires with out having to over intellectualize it.

He was so learned that he could name a horse in nine languages. So ignorant that he bought a cow to ride on.

- Poor Richard

Gisteron wrote:

Rickie The Grey wrote: I'm not following you?

Well, that's helpful. Let me try and resolve this. Oh, wait, you didn't actually say what it is you are having trouble understanding. Oh, well.

I find many of your statements fracturized. I get the impression you can't posting a simple statement or answer and you use several extraneous statements to avoide a straight forward simple response. You may think your smart ass statements clever and may get some sense of satisfaction from them but you may be the only that thinks so.

I just have faith.

So do these people . Also, as I mentioned before, you can replace "to have faith" with "to believe" and nothing will have changed. Would you respect anyone who "just believes" anything? As I said, I think that's really stupid, but we also know it is dangerous. Faith is not a virtue .

I try to show respect reguardless of faith and beliefs. I think most, not all, people deserve politness.

PS Your choice of words is rather provoking. Is that your intention or are you just busting my rocks?

Unless I'm being obviously and deliberately sarcastic (and I try to make it obvious and apologize if I fail doing so), I do mean everything I say. Now, if my words were provoking to you this time, I can't say that was my intention though I am in no way sorry that they had that effect. If nothing else they'd be more of a nudge that way and I think that may be a good thing every now and again.

So you mean what you say but can't say that was your intention nor are you sorry if you offend. It appears you are ignorant of the affect your words have or don't care or are just goofing around on the internet?

Based on my own experience, it seems silly to go on believing something you can't defend from yourself.

Maybe for you and that is OK. The very essence of my faith is faith and I'm OK if you think it's silly.

If you look up what " silly " means, you'll find that maybe, just maybe, she might have something of a point there...

She may very well and I'm and I'm OK with that.

I believe you could be a better respected member of this community if you tried to be nicer and put your games playing aside. You're a smart person, I'd like to read more from the respectful considerate person I have faith that you are.

OR are you goofing around on the internet?

rugadd wrote: I "just believe" in the wonder and power of the unknown. This way I don't have to prove anything and I can still feel the awe that the universe inspires with out having to over intellectualize it.

Funny thing is, most of the stuff I have brought up a fifth grader would know.

Never watched the show, but interesting relevance.

Nothing has been over intellectualized, not even close.

Perhaps some enjoy knowing, and others enjoy the unknown?

Ignorance is bliss vs knowledge is power... some prioritise bliss, some power.

Rickie The Grey wrote: I find many of your statements fracturized. I get the impression you can't posting a simple statement or answer and you use several extraneous statements to avoide a straight forward simple response. You may think your smart ass statements clever and may get some sense of satisfaction from them but you may be the only that thinks so.

Well, I try to express myself in multiple ways, numerous enough to point the reader along my thinking lines, but few enough to express myself precisely and quickly. If you are having trouble understanding some of what I say, I'll gladly help but you'd have to say what it is you aren't getting... That is unless you don't really care to understand and are mentioning that you don't just so I know, in which case I'd ask you to kindly not do that.

I think most, not all, people deserve politness.

You're right, my phrasing was a little messy here. There is a minimum level of respect people generally can expect, and some arguably do or don't deserve more. When I say to "just believe" things is stupid, I don't mean that the person who does that is a stupid person, I mean that the person is being stupid doing that. I may respect the person (though I often won't, but then I still ought to show some respect, if I can), but I don't think actions or beliefs deserve respect just for being what they are.

It appears you are ignorant of the affect your words have or don't care or are just goofing around on the internet?

No, that's not what that means. Again, I mean what I say. I'm not sorry if I was provoking. I also said it may be a good thing, if I was. In both cases, that was not my intent. I said what I said because that is what I thought and what I felt was an appropriate thing for me to say. If I didn't care about the effects of my words, I wouldn't be posting them. Of course with people being so very different I can't accurately predict every single reaction and effect, so in a sense I am partially ignorant of the effects of my words. And if hurting someone's feelings is the cost of honesty, then so be it. Unlike me, you actually did say that you don't care what others think. Well, I do. That's why I respond. And I have had regrets over some things I said. Not this time though, not yet anyway.
Also, if you feel like I'm just goofing around, nothing forces you to take me seriously. I appreciate that you do though.

She may very well and I'm and I'm OK with that.

Yes, I was just saying that this is not a mere opinion of her's. If you're okay with being silly, perhaps there isn't really much of a way how we can help you. Just keep in mind that no man is an island and eventually your "just-beliefs" will influence you and other people in a negative way. Chances are they already have. Again, you may be okay with that. We aren't.

I believe you could be a better respected member of this community if you tried to be nicer and put your games playing aside.

Believe it or not, I'm not a member of this community. I'm a guest. And I've earned my share of respect here while I was a member and since I am a guest, too. I also don't crave respect. If somebody chooses to not pay me any, that's their choice to make. At least on my account they'd get away with most of it. Of course I rarely accuse anyone of playing games. You are saying I'm being less than genuine here, but I shall take no offense with that and leave it to the judgement of the fair readers of our conversation whether or not I am playing games with you or anyone else. In the mean time, I'd like you to quote the passage of my post where you felt I was less than honest and the one that hurt your feelings, because I can't think of any such.

tzb wrote: Perhaps some enjoy knowing, and others enjoy the unknown?

Ignorance is bliss vs knowledge is power... some prioritise bliss, some power.

That's funny, because the faithful, but especially those tasked to spread a faith will claim to know things they can't possibly know, and to know it absolutely, all about them and without a shadow of a doubt. They are also the ones that are having most power over their followers which happen to be most of the people on the planet. On the other hand, the sceptics and scientists who are left to admit their ignorance and therefore to explore the unknown are those with least power and most bliss.
You are kind of right. Some enjoy to have found, others to keep searching.

You really do make me chuckle Gisteron, thank you. I'm glad you're here.