The value of Faith

I just don't think about MY death very often. I used to, prior to joining TOTJO.

It's one of those things I can't change so I don't worry about it (faith or no faith aside).

I don't waste any time or energy on it...if it happens it happens, when it happens it happens...perfectly healthy people have inexplicably dropped dead while someone with an unhealthy lifestyle lives to be over 100...

Khaos wrote:

I'm not sure we're ever going to agree on what constitutes solid evidence.

Certainly not at TOTJO.

No one can even agree on the words they are using here more than half the time.

Attempting to communicate here is next to impossible if you are in disagreement with someone else.

Either there is the agree to disagree approach, which isnt communication.

Or a retreat into subjectivity as if that in itself is an answer, or evidence.

Well, instead of jumping into conversations, perhaps ask for the starting point...

Something we shoupd perhaps agree on, then, from a common starting point, we can move forward...

Steamboat's thread about "words mean things" is right, of course...

But as i use words differently, than you, we need to agree on how they are defined and move forward...

But, we didn't...

I love how people get all bent out of shape on this point, including Steamboat...

I don't do it to obstinate, but because LTK and I would disagree as well, because I use "faith" like trust...

Not "belief of something without proof"...

Because that is ridiculous.... lol...

Learn_To_Know wrote: I just don't think about MY death very often. I used to, prior to joining TOTJO.

It's one of those things I can't change so I don't worry about it (faith or no faith aside).

I think about mine.

My son is young and there is much I would like to share with him.

My wife...I love here more than I could ever articulate.

They are dependent upon my income.

Certainly when it happens, it happens, but I do not exist in a void, and my life extends well past myself in its influence.

That influence is reciprocal.

I don't fear death, but I do think about it.

Also, it happens slot in my line of work, so it's fairly ever present. I know how healthy people can just drop dead, not inexplicably though, and I myself simply cannot be that blase about it. I see no wisdom or strength in that.

Seeing a man married to his wife for sixty years, and his reaction to her death...

No movie comes close to real love and loss.

No, nothing changes its inevitability, but that is besides the point.

I also feel the melancholy of things i have not lost yet.

Again, I see how faith is a comfort, but I just don't have it.

I have always said to myself that I would not take life, or death for granted, I will not be one of those that dismiss it.

I have always said to myself that I would not take life, or death for granted, I will not be one of those that dismiss it.

I hope you don't think that's what I meant when I said I don't think about my own death. Because I have some explaining to do if I was misinterpreted like that.

My family depends on my income, too. It's why I got life insurance.

That is a neat thing you have with your wife and you sound like a good father, too. I wish more dads and husbands were like that...

Jestor wrote:
I don't do it to obstinate, but because LTK and I would disagree as well, because I use "faith" like trust...

Not "belief of something without proof"...

Because that is ridiculous.... lol...[/color]

Exactly. You and I could enjoy a downright pleasant conversation once we agree on the definition!

Haha.

I use trust like trust.

Crazy I know.

I don't need to alter another word or definition for a pre-existing one that works fine.

Little point in that.

Learn_To_Know wrote:

I have always said to myself that I would not take life, or death for granted, I will not be one of those that dismiss it.

I hope you don't think that's what I meant when I said I don't think about my own death. Because I have some explaining to do if I was misinterpreted like that.

My family depends on my income, too. It's why I got life insurance.

That is a neat thing you have with your wife and you sound like a good father, too. I wish more dads and husbands were like that...

No, I didn't necessarily mean anyone.

I have life insurance too, but that's only so much a comfort in today's world, and again, I am lacking in the faith department.

I don't know that it's a neat thing I have with my wife.... I just assumed that's what you were supposed to have with your wife.

I try to be the best father I can be.

One thing about Sagan's quote.

From a purely logical point of view he was correct. From a practical one, however, he wasn't.

Imagine you are in a theater, somebody suggests there might be a bomb anywhere in the room. So the entire saloon gets evacuated by security which then with the help of police sergeants and bloodhounds goes on to search for the alleged bomb. You hoped to see the presentation at 20.00 hrs, but now its 23.30, and still nobody could find the bomb.
An elderly abombist lady gets increasingly upset and demands for the audience to be let back inside, but the guards won't let her in. So she gets more capricious as time goes on until the security officer in charge is called. He tells the lady:
"Ma'am, we cannot risk letting you back inside. Depending on the bomb's composition it could cost up to all of your lives. It is vital you stay outside until the risk is eliminated."
"But officer, you have been on this for almost four hours! You must have searched the entire hall twice by now! There is no bomb, there never was!"
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The bomb may still be in there, waiting to be triggered. I'm sorry, ma'am. Please, step back."

The logic is in itself flawless, but following it the day will never come when anyone can put a step back into that theater ever again. This reasoning is unpractical, and we don't use it. For all intents and purposes, absence of evidence is, indeed, evidence of absence.

Khaos wrote: I use trust like trust.

Crazy I know.

I don't need to alter another word or definition for a pre-existing one that works fine.

Little point in that.

Crazy, yea....

You realize that 1. you still didn't define it, and 2. it can, and is, used for more than "a feeling of confidence in something", right?

I have not altered the definition of "faith", merely used a valid one you happen to use "trust" as another word for... One I use all of the time, and in the way in which I speak, and not concerned with religion...

I have [faith, trust, confidence] that the sun will rise tomorrow... Because it did today, and has for a long time...