Protest the past

You all think the war is over? The First Crusade occurred between the years of 1095-1099. That is when Islam and Christianity started their official state of coexisting in war. Seven more official crusades occurred until the year 1272, but what makes you think it ended there? There are centuries of war and hatred towards one another sitting behind their churches and mosques. Faithful adherents the world over have been told of their opponent's evil ways, how they are supporting the oppressor of man.

Let's break it down. Each faith believes they are the one true path to the Source. They see this opposing contender, a major contender at that, converting members of their faith and of all faiths when all of these people should be coming to their faith for salvation. They attack one another because they believe one another is doing the works of evil and keeping innocents from salvation.

Fair enough. I have contacted you through a private channel to discuss this matter further and leave the board for the original topic. We can later decide wether we want to make any, what and what amount of the contents of our conversation or a recording of it publicly available.

What I am going to say though is that I in no way was making fun of you or of your faith and was genuinely happy to be indeed challenged because I rarely am although I'd much enjoy to learn about anyone's faith and be it only to educate myself on it. It was in no way my intention to sound or to be rude or insulting and I am not afraid of being debunked or criticized publicly - I just thought that this particular thread isn't the right place to continue, and indeed, that the forum format for the most part is inconvenient for quick back and forth discussions anyway.

Brenna wrote: "A Florida pastor was arrested Wednesday as he drove a pickup truck towing a large barbecue-style grill filled with kerosene-soaked Qurans to a park, where the pastor had said he was planning to burn 2,998 of the Muslim holy books_ one for every victim of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/terry-jones-arrested_n_3909765.html


Im struggling to understand this. perhaps im just being dense....

Why? I just cant fathom it.

I watched the video interview with one of the people who was attending the "burn ceremony", and I simply dont get it. What are they expecting the action to achieve?

I despise everything this man stands for but you also must try to understand the pain many of us still feel 12 years later. This pain is especially acute for those of us from NYC and elsewhere that lost friends on 9/11. Words can not describe the suffering, shock and anger. If not dealt with this pain can lead to irrational behavior which creates more pain. Maybe we can teach the world another way.

Donkey wrote: I despise everything this man stands for but you also must try to understand the pain many of us still feel 12 years later. This pain is especially acute for those of us from NYC and elsewhere that lost friends on 9/11. Words can not describe the suffering, shock and anger. If not dealt with this pain can lead to irrational behavior which creates more pain. Maybe we can teach the world another way.

Its interesting you say this Donkey (and I agree). I have a close friend who was there, thankfully, on the ground floor at the time. He was one of the lucky ones, but lost friends and family. He is a devout Christian and a very good man.

He sent me this article after we had a conversation about memorial services, and he is deeply angry about it, his words were "Those that we lost deserve a legacy of peace and an attempt to heal the rifts that lead to this tragedy in the first place, not stupidity that will only cause more lives to be lost". He also had a rant about the glorification of the dead.... but thats a whole other conversation.

To be honest- I haven't read the entire thread, so I can't comment directly to anyone, however- I think the fight between Christians and Muslims might be PARTLY a matter of empathy. Or lack thereof, here's a good talk which I think actually features momentarily Terry Jones in the presentation... Terry Jones I think has a lack of empathy for the people he hates.

http://www.ted.com/talks/sam_richards_a_radical_experiment_in_empathy.html

I don't think any of us could possibly say they know for certain why this priest did it. Being of the type to believe the best in people, I believe he was trying to make a positive statement. Just because its not what I would do, nor indicative of what I believe, does not change what he was trying to accomplish or why. Going back to Joseph Campbell, he mentioned that we are all evil to someone and that objectifying an act doesn't make it any less heroic. I'm willing to bet a lot of people supported that priest and thought he was doing a heroic thing in a time where what he was doing was not acceptable. He was going against norms, struggling against the law and even a large part of society to raise a flag of Truth for something he believed in.

Keep in mind that I am not saying what he did was right for me, but I'm willing to bet what he did was right for him.

rugadd wrote: I don't think any of us could possibly say they know for certain why this priest did it. Being of the type to believe the best in people, I believe he was trying to make a positive statement. Just because its not what I would do, nor indicative of what I believe, does not change what he was trying to accomplish or why. Going back to Joseph Campbell, he mentioned that we are all evil to someone and that objectifying an act doesn't make it any less heroic. I'm willing to bet a lot of people supported that priest and thought he was doing a heroic thing in a time where what he was doing was not acceptable. He was going against norms, struggling against the law and even a large part of society to raise a flag of Truth for something he believed in.

Keep in mind that I am not saying what he did was right for me, but I'm willing to bet what he did was right for him.

I keep coming back to the idea of "impotent" grief and anger. I would love to be able to speak to him and ask him directly! But i wonder if its not a case of being so desperate to do something, anything, to work through the emotional impact. A feeling of desperate helplessness is im sure what drives people to extreme action on a regular basis.

Donkey wrote: I despise everything this man stands for but you also must try to understand the pain many of us still feel 12 years later.

I have a lot of very specific feelings about this whole entire topic (9/11) that I won't get into here, but I will say this: the decisions Americans have made about how to honor those lost on that day (publicly), and the extent of their reaction to it compared with other, similar tragedies in other locations or with different scales (publicly), has been very largely handled in a very wrong way.

I don't think any of us could possibly say they know for certain why this priest did it. Being of the type to believe the best in people, I believe he was trying to make a positive statement. Just because its not what I would do, nor indicative of what I believe, does not change what he was trying to accomplish or why. Going back to Joseph Campbell, he mentioned that we are all evil to someone and that making a moral judgement on an act doesn't make it any less heroic. I'm willing to bet a lot of people supported that priest and thought he was doing a heroic thing in a time where what he was doing was not acceptable. He was going against norms, struggling against the law and even a large part of society to raise a flag of Truth for something he believed in.

Keep in mind that I am not saying what he did was right for me, but I'm willing to bet what he did was right for him.

I can only imagine he was trying to incite an over emotional reaction from some Muslim's, to the Quran being burned. When that reaction includes things like death threats, then it appears an irrational response to many people.

It's completely inappropriate for religious practitioner IMO. An activist might find value in it to point out an otherwise legal incineration of private property under safe conditions should not be made illegal because of what might be fairly called irrational reactions (death threats?). Why is it even covered by media.... to try and get a reaction.

All in all it seem's like silly people for the way they go about things. If they want to upset those same Muslim's who would get upset by that, then they'd probably have more success trying to create an international 'Draw a Prophet Picture' day. They can have people draw pictures of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad etc holding hands and giving out flowers or something. It would make any emotional fundamentalist reaction seem even more irrational without the symbology of burning and destruction.