Joseph Campbell is awful

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17 Apr 2018 22:15 - 17 Apr 2018 22:41 #320516 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Was thinking the other day, to me the IP worked best as a platform to explore 'patterns' in topics, as an exercise in breaking out of rigid mindsets - and not to be seen as teachings..... and as a program done so in a diverse range of topics related to the various entry points people find themselves coming to real Jediism. Some might be relevant to some and not to others. And in that regard I was disappointed to see McTaggert booted from it. For seen as a precursor to working on ones more personal areas of specialization alongside further freeing oneself from harmful paradigms in an Apprenticeship, it seemed to make sense such that as a Knight they can most fully focus and develop their own best systems of decision making, action and both physical and mental health - connecting to the Force, parsing it's nature which in 'energetic' terms to me seemed like it would be more about how one works with patterns then what patterns they believed - information mobility :D And then subsequently populating the Degree program as they progressed on self further study to overall create a momentum of subject matter specialists and a real mentoring capability. At least that is what I inferred to be the strategic direction when I joined, by way of its structure. I dunno what others see or if what the real one is, and various changes would indicate its not that, and that is ok (hopefully its better!). But to the point, in that regard, not agreeing with something in the IP is no reason to exclude it or feel like your wasting your time - to me they would be errors of view by way of being unnecessary and wasting potential positive use of the material and process. That is my own personal view though.

And in regards to the monomyth being true... I dunno, perhaps at some deeper level, though I was also reading a few days ago about Margaret Mead and her views on how Samoan culture did not seemingly follow the standard pattern in regard to adolescent sexuality and taboos. I cannot help but feel the the monomyth speaks more of individual spiritual journey then any uniformity across cultural structures. Perhaps as a result of us all sharing the same base set of instincts and mechanisms of mind, and relatively similar environments seemingly. In which case the cultural aspect really is just limited to the study and comparison of cultures, which is not so much of interest to me personally besides connecting to a particular culture.

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Last edit: 17 Apr 2018 22:41 by Adder.

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24 Sep 2018 03:08 - 24 Sep 2018 03:13 #326845 by simeon
Replied by simeon on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Please allow me to put out there how glad I am to discover that I am not alone in struggling with this.

I got into a debate recently with someone outside of this forum regarding the works of Joseph Campbell; I asserted that his ideas were fascinating but as a student of Anthropology, I have been taught from day one the cultural relativist approach, which I believe runs contrary to Campbell's monomyth. I was referred to Bastian's elemental ideas, and Jungian archetypes, and it was suggested that the work of cognitive linguistics on the "conceptual metaphor" might support some arguments for these universal archetypes.

After cooling my heels, I realized from a scholarly perspective, there is some relevance to these arguments, and I can still enjoy Campbell's theory if I do not take the monomyth as a given when approaching analysis of new cultural expressions. There are a few lecturers who I know, that would give me a right royal dressing down if they thought for one minute I was taking ideas into the field that might interfere with the work of collecting data. These ideas may have a place during final analysis, but limited practical application aside, we don't read Campbell here to become amateur anthropologists or academic folklorists.

I made a poor attempt some time ago to refute some of Campbell's ideas in a conclusion to Lesson One of my IP Journal, which needs plenty more work before it makes any real sense. I drew upon writings by Jorgenson and Dundas, both academics who make a better case than I can at this stage. But I'm glad to be able to utilize my critical reasoning faculties, and doubly thrilled that this is a forum where that is encouraged.

I wouldn't call Campbell awful; imperfect perhaps, but not awful. He certainly believed what he taught, even if his ideas had holes in them.
Last edit: 24 Sep 2018 03:13 by simeon.
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02 Nov 2018 03:53 #328715 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
I'm just going to revive this topic to ask a question:
What do you think should supplement Campbell?

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02 Nov 2018 04:19 #328716 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Joseph Campbell is awful

Rex wrote: I'm just going to revive this topic to ask a question:
What do you think should supplement Campbell?


Probably a multi-vitamin mineral pill depending on your age, health, and the recommendation of your doctor.

Remember, one perfectly correct response is to disagree in part or in full with Mr. Campbell as long as you support your ideas. It's not an indoctrination.

There will be more material, more choices and a revolution and evolution is coming to The IP and to The Order.

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02 Nov 2018 17:34 #328731 by Carlos.Martinez3
So question - who else can you find that explains the myth difrently or in a different light ?

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02 Nov 2018 19:02 #328735 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Joseph Campbell is awful

Br. John wrote: revolution and evolution is coming to The IP and to The Order.

Care to unpack that?

Also to clarify, my post wasn't complaining that whoever devised the curriculum is awful for Ludovico techniquing us with Campbell. Just making the (hopefully obvious) point that he isn't an exhaustive approach to understanding myth, and then trying to find what else people have used in their personal journies.

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02 Nov 2018 20:19 #328738 by JamesSand
Replied by JamesSand on topic Joseph Campbell is awful

Rex wrote: Care to unpack that?


You're more interested in vague allusions that there might be a revised IP published and some sort of (real or nominal) restructure of the Temple brand, than the recommendation that multivitamins be taken as a general supplement for all and sundry?


(an industry as insidious as gift cards, diamonds, or fast food)

For the cost of the multivitamins that millions of otherwise perfectly healthy people are swallowing each day, you could change whatever small part of the world you felt needed it most.
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03 Nov 2018 11:52 - 03 Nov 2018 11:55 #328747 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Not to pull this off topic but multi-vitamins are mostly a sham. Not only do most diets(even poor ones) recieve a decent amount of the needed nutrients, but we don't absorb much from the pills anyway. There are ways to optimize the absorbtion but there are risks to taking too much of certain vitamins. Please refer to a nutritionist before adding vitamins to your diet OR removing them.


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Last edit: 03 Nov 2018 11:55 by JLSpinner.
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13 Nov 2018 02:37 #329086 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
This seems to need an explanation.

Vitamins, minerals, and vitamin mineral combinations are also referred to as supplements.

"Probably a multi-vitamin mineral pill depending on your age, health, and the recommendation of your doctor."

That's a pun on the word supplement, and a not that great joke, but it's a joke.

I hope and expect that changes for the better are coming. As far as the board of directors actually taking suggestions and publishing proposals for public comment, that will be after New Years Day 2019.

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13 Nov 2018 05:44 #329101 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Joseph Campbell is awful

Br. John wrote: As far as the board of directors actually taking suggestions and publishing proposals for public comment, that will be after New Years Day 2019.

Whence the wait?

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