What is it really? Lets talk about the Force for real...

12 Sep 2020 14:47 #354517 by Carlos.Martinez3
Between what the Force CAN be and what it is to each of us, is a long road of in betweens. Trying to explain the Force, that thing that can be anything and what we have is like sometimes trying to explain what we cant see yet...
What the Force is to each of us will be different. We can explain it and give it what we know but it wont be the same because of where we were born or where we get our information from by whats available.

Brass tacks: location and availability.

These two variations make a spread no one can grab, good luck trying. Free will and all that.


What is the Living Force or the one YOU got? What is it really?

Is there a real difference between the Force and the Living Force IN REAL LIFE?????

Pastor Carlos

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  • Eqin Ilis
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14 Sep 2020 06:42 #354557 by Eqin Ilis
The Universal or Cosmic Force is the space between it all. The connections between everything and the thing we try to tap into when we meditate, the thing we try to get information from when we do divinations, the hope that we have that it all fits into some bigger pattern. Looking at the Cosmic Force is like looking at the internet, where you can understand some of how it is all connected and how it all works, but you can't see the whole thing at the same time. We can understand how we all use it differently and visit different parts, but it's all clearly part of a larger whole that is constantly changing and growing. To study the Cosmic Force is to wonder at the nature of it all, and if there is a bigger picture that is just beyond reach. It is the quest for why we are here. (Philosophy, theology, cosmology, etc.)

The Living Force is the near undefinable quality of living itself. Every living thing has something in it that makes it alive, which others might call the breath of life. Looking at the Living Force is less like trying to look at the internet as a whole and more like really letting yourself appreciate all the little details in a single webpage (not even the whole site, just the page you are on at the moment). Sure each page has links and connections to the greater whole, each is made up of similar parts, but no two are exactly the same. Some are constantly changing, such as forum pages. In this way, no two life forms are ever quite the same, and many are constantly changing. There may be connections between them we can understand through the Cosmic Force, but to really appreciate the Living Force is to try to truly see all the details and layers of the lifeforms one connects with in that moment. Just as the Cosmic deals with the bigger picture, the Living Force zooms in and sees the intent, the goals, the personalities of the life driving it. To study the Living Force is not to wonder why we are here, but to wonder how one wishes to live, and how one wishes to experience those minute details. (Physchology, animal husbandry, horticulture, environmentalism, etc.)

Both the Cosmic Force and the Living Force are a part of the greater whole. Just as biologists are dedicated to studying life on our planet and astronomers are dedicated to studying the space beyond our planet, but both are studying the science of our world, a student of the Force who has chosen to focus on the Living or Cosmic Force is dedicated to understanding the intricacies of their particular focus in greater detail rather than continue to try to grasp the entirety of things all at once. Anyone can study both parts of the Force, just as anyone can take classes in multiple sciences. But to say that one is a focus means actually dedicating themselves to focusing on that aspect.

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14 Sep 2020 07:49 #354558 by Adder
I posted this on a Discord just now, about religion, and it can have import to this thread;

I tend to see religion as being a type of devotion to something bigger than oneself.... even if that thing is a bigger version of ones self The association of an 'external thing' initially seems contrary to my working theory/belief of the Force by defining that difference as across time rather than space, but of course at a pragmatic level we are limited in our capacity to perceive and process only so much data (probably by being limited to being within only one time LOL). As such focus changes its form depending on where the resources are applied across a range of time and space.... a bit like a tree, the closer one is to the ground the more solid and sure it is, but the further it is away the more options exist and they themselves are always moving and changing. Therefore 'religion' is a devotion to that structure, whom it serves is up to the religion... not all religions have to be dogmatic, and I reckon the more dogmatic they are the more likely they are to fall foul of changing seasons of the forest.

In that context, to me the Living Force is that tangibility of causality (temporal footprint) which can be attributed to a location (causative agent). While the Universal Force is the rest of the Force reaching out beyond the Living Force. In effect they are the same thing but different frames of reference for just it, as the Force itself being everything. A Jedi then uses the Force by virtue of their mindset being the toolset of interacting with its within those frames of reference to better enable processing of the available data........ sort of thing. Some people cut trees down, some people shape them into trinkets, and Jedi just like climbing them to get a better view :D

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14 Sep 2020 13:00 #354573 by rugadd
The Force is all that I know, all that I don't know, and all that I don't know I don't know.


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13 Nov 2020 23:54 #356152 by LTK
I've always had a simple definition of the Force: it's Nature. The words are interchangeable to me but depending on the mask I'm wearing I'll use the different terms.

Here, I call it the Force.
With non-Jedi I call it Nature.

So to answer your last question: "Is there a real difference between the Force and the Living Force IN REAL LIFE?????"

I'll change the wording just slightly: Is there a real difference between Nature and the Living Nature in real life?

My answer would be no.

However, my simplistic definition of the Force takes nothing away from its awesome grandeur and what little we know about it only scratches the surface.

Maybe my definition will change as we learn more.... :)

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14 Nov 2020 03:45 #356157 by Yeremyahu
The force is the inherent value in all life. Its the the thing that sparks life into infancy. It is the various waves flowing through the air. It's the building block of the universe. It is both the conscious and unconscious mind. It is real. How mystical and magical it is is up for debate, but it does exist and it is intuitive once one knows what to look for.

Some believe in ghosts staying after death to inhabit physical space. What keeps a soul together in such a way? The force.

What forms the essence of good and evil within life forms, something all life has some conscious or unconscious sense of? The force.

What holds the universe together? The force.

This, as all are aware, neither negates nor supports the existence of God. Personally, I believe in God, and I also believe in the force.

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15 Nov 2020 19:16 #356199 by Alexandre Orion
χάρη (Grace)

*… a clandestine piece of Light falls upon a fragmented innocence, mathematics ramp up to threshold and the circuit closes to activate an opening into uncertainty. Jumping through evermore stings the sensibilities of an antique time-teller who exists but in poetic reveries times one, two, three, ten thousand and one again, connexions and then jumping out of it all again … Would one realise a dream or dream a reality if given a choice between Lunacy and Love ? Eleventy thousand million Worlds collaborate on a moment of Perfect Beauty, right here, there, now, remembered on a second-hand heartbeat and forgotten once more or less at forever … Understanding cuts thrice-sided slices out of crises of perception, listening to the gold and gamma rays spilling out of a few dozen supernovae into a hundred and one blossoming buds quivering with promises ; the waiting times-up and through nurturing, sticking it all together, watering it nicely and then it all turns quite a lively Green. Once and evermore, an effigy of an angel whispers sweet sounding Geometry, only briefly coloured blue, reading left to right in white symbols, tones that sing a world into order, rising and falling rhythmically on a mid-summer afternoon, resting upon the sunset of a century ago and dreaming of the hyper-light flight from Orion, soft brown hairs billow on the Zephyr sighing into the Orient … Events take shape as delicate things in space-time, fluttering over dreams that inform the universe, blue in a moment, then moving the moment into every hue, arranging galaxies into gardens, hands held in the centre, heart-ward and home-bound … All around the Sky waves longingly, slow and ubiquitous red borders the blue, shifting from one to the other in luminous undulation then collapsing into the centre where the whispering angel walks along the ultraviolet … Blue moments engrave upon the subconscious of the next to last of the Aristos their dreams of galactic gardens woven into geometries of right to left white suns-song, read through red orbits 'round and dark darkening circles, widening with the rise and fall of Empires, civilisations and demagogues, paying the price of pleasure with exceptionally pleasant pains extended across all the horizons and all the seas … From the garden, gracefully gazing upon the stone, shrubbery in shadow and bone cleverly arranged, sculpted and pruned toward reflexions rivalling History, other-most angel-stuff ponders evolution, late arrivals and eager departs ; extinction results an hour after election-day for a fugitive tear catching the sunlight … Above, in shades of blue moments lingering sleepily out of clocks and calendars unwound, unbound and uncovered, stirs the freshness of a newly opened rose, softly unaware of time-telling, drops of Devil's dew drip, drip, dripping into the dream and the stain swirls into the galaxy gracing the milk and honey of morning coffee … Spoons bend in the Solar wind, straightening only at each end of midnight where auroras twist back on alike things, and that is when butterflies recall caterpillars, ground-bound 'til silent in spun-silk sanctuary, counting the phases of the moons pulling up tides and tidings of flight … Even on the odd days one loves, one would love for the day to last throughout the night, ‘til the suns swell up with a belly-full of iron that becomes the most dazzling of alchemy ! coughing up a two pence worth of Philosophers’ Stones while as many Worlds all come to Life … One, two, three, ten thousand and one at a time, connexions jumping across other event-horizons, just to be a little afraid of the dark and keep the monsters under the bed well fed ; instead of telling lies, we tell one another faery-tales and other things that could be true … Old books abound, stacked under the dust of stories yet to be told for new ones happen even in the old, germs of feeling dormant in thoughts and dreams, grains which sprout when barren soil comes alive again, nourished by the freedom of fantasies raining out of the thunderhead posed upon a feather pillow … Paradise and Purgatory in the same Place, placed with a whisper between Spica and Rigel while peering out at peers paired by budding blossoms, the promises broken over calendars and clocks winding, binding and covering the Eastern horizon with the next generation … Yellow suns sing too, to listeners of lighter metals, some in the sea, some in the wood and some in the City where the shaky, shady needle of the sundial does not tick-tock-tick through its suggestions, losing all its hours after sundown and thus runs time-tellers out of tales to tell … And the other-most ascends through the spiral, ignoring all the glass and steel (and the heat involved in them) to take another look at what even wishing-wells rarely take penny-payments for, pays it up a pound for the privilege and plans another holiday toward the sunny other end of absurdity … There the sun is still setting beyond the effigy, still whispering, white notes still chiming on the blue, and the Geometry rising and falling its sighs to the Orient, sliding seductively toward September crowned with clock towers and garden walks at least three seasons high ; all eleventy thousand million Worlds work as One, wandering through Eternity and forgetting for only a moment Forever … Choosing between Lunacy and Love, one holds a pounding heart-full – one hell of a lot - of both and both realise dreams dreamt in some other reality jumped out of and left behind a century on either side of now, that moment of Perfect Beauty, a memory of light and lightness, whispering from within the romantic reveries harbouring philosophers and poets of every alternating age, the shadow of smoke circulating on a sigh … Evermore and once the sunshine cascades over the garden and the court, half-open windows witness the Event behind the time-teller’s eye beholding Beauty, the soul opens to the centre, from which … *

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
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16 Nov 2020 01:45 #356204 by Adder

LTK wrote: Here, I call it the Force.
With non-Jedi I call it Nature.

That's nice. I think here I work it as the essence or unifying aspect of the Force (aforementioned 'universal'), and with non-Jedi I call it nature or living aspect of the Force.
Purpose being here I'm sorta engineering and hybridising thoughts and ideas.... fixating and focusing orientating within paradigms etc, while not here I'm more about being receptive and connecting, or moving and embedded as part of the environment.

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TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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17 Nov 2020 23:08 #356252 by Proteus
It's often I see people wanting a tangible definition of the Force - tangible meaning, something they can nail down with boundaries, and can encapsulate with human language. To many "takes" on the Force, to them, it ought to be something of that sort. Should it be something tangible and describable? I mean, would that be apt enough as it is? Is there no other way to observe or contemplate the force beyond this typical approach and learn from it?

“For it is easy to criticize and break down the spirit of others, but to know yourself takes a lifetime.”
― Bruce Lee

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18 Nov 2020 01:01 - 18 Nov 2020 01:04 #356256 by Adder
To me conceptualization is just like tooling, its a piece of 'machinery' (for want of a better word) designed to manipulate something, in a particular way, for some specific effect or outcome.

It's less about creating a static label, and more about pragmatic interaction... ie what 'path' represents. The track walked rather then the label; be it a name on the map, or its position description in regards to other mapped elements.

So like a path perhaps, it should be evergreen, with new shoots emerging, and that sometimes need a pruning because they grow too old and hold us back :silly:

Obviously a Jedi's tools don't define what they are, but they serve to allow the Jedi to achieve more of what they are (more effectively).

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 18 Nov 2020 01:04 by Adder.
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