Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity

20 Mar 2017 19:01 #278713 by Loudzoo
Loudzoo created the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
This is specifically for some dear friends of mine who are going through a rough time at the moment but its also anyone who is having a tough time . . .




"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving."
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher . . . or, as his wife would have it, an idiot" Douglas Adams
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20 Mar 2017 19:53 #278717 by JamesSand
JamesSand replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
Just going to chill here until enough people comment on the (video?) so I can infer what the content is :dry:

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20 Mar 2017 20:55 - 20 Mar 2017 20:57 #278721 by Adder
Adder replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
I can give you my take on it James, warning labels and all....

The first one just seems to talk about how our brain can process our footprint through time, and I presume that how that manifests as anxiety is a combination of the amount of variability in that footprint, and the manner in which we've been bought up to understand the possible range of behaviors. He seems to associate the concept of 'flow' to being detached from those processes, and instead being focused in the present moment - or in other words I'd guess, distracted by the present moment (ie Taoism) BUT in such a way to have an altered perception to the extent that perception is enriching, rather then seeing everything as wrong (ie Buddhism).

The second vid talks about how people aspire and dream to the extent that it destroys ones own potential, and how instead we need to define ourselves by action. Then there is some monologue about what happens with the former. Seems to attack modernity for allowing it, but perhaps is just trying to highlite its power to enable it and indeed require it to some extent. Ask's his buddy how he might deal with "moments that threaten to dissolve your identity" ie "stuff which threatens to dissolve the ego". They talk about some concept of a mirror to be real and go off on some tangent about higher states of existential anxiety and how cognitive framing can be using language to serve your own reality, a symbolic reality - which I assume is akin to above where I said perception is altered 'constructively', he uses the words nourishes, and says its a better approach to mental health. He then points out sometimes if you cannot control your thoughts, then change your actions (in the same way) instead.

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Last Edit: 20 Mar 2017 20:57 by Adder.
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21 Mar 2017 00:28 - 21 Mar 2017 00:33 #278730 by Proteus
Proteus replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
A lot of this seems to concern how one occupies their mind and where they put their thoughts, and what kinds of things we can get involved in to influence our thoughts one way or another. Being involved in careers and activities that nourish our confidence in life at the present can influence more positive and productive frames of mentality, whereas, more mundane jobs and boredom can easily breed a lot of empty room for negative and fearful frames of mentality.

The thing is, we can get stuck in a catch 22, if we're already in a negative frame but want to change our active way of life to something more proactive. If we're fearful or just regularly feeling discouraged or unmotivated to make a change, then we won't (or we try and at the first sign(s) of anything that hints at our negative frame of mind, we bail on it because our frame of mind tells us that it's just no good for [insert reasons here]). I've had this happen to me on various occasions but mostly on smaller scales.

I've had to gradually work my way up to higher levels of physical and mental activity, and still have a long ways to go, but my move to the UK and this new job with all the changes I'm faced with is taking me quite a long way toward that, and in the midst of it, I regularly find a lot of obstacles where I would like to do something but I just don't have the confidence or courage to put myself out there just yet to do it, I will have to work up to it gradually, to get ME to trust MYSELF that I can handle it.

The guy in the videos is like a Californian Matthew McConaughey... "Alright alright alright..."

:silly:
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2017 00:33 by Proteus.
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21 Mar 2017 10:00 #278754 by Loudzoo
Loudzoo replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
What this seems to build to is the recognition that we are not our thoughts and emotions, rather we are the experiencer / listener of the thoughts and emotions that stream through our minds. We are not the "monkey mind", we are the awareness that can choose to let the "monkey mind" take over (bad idea) or to train them to pipe down (better idea). This idea is ultimately inaccurate (after all it, itself, is just another thought, just another mental object) - as Krishnamurti argues, the split of experience and experiencer is artificial and arbitrary. BUT it may be a necessary stepping stone to ultimately reach a point of integration.

One may have to deconstruct oneself before we can be rebuilt. That process is going to be painful. Madness, distress, or emotional instability may occur - St John of the Cross didn't call it 'The Dark Night of the Soul' without good reason. The good news is that such distress can be the catalyst required to undertake this work. Distress is not a necessary prerequisite but it can be a powerful tool to rebuild an identity less myopic than the one we have imprinted on us, by society, and that we habitually imprint on ourselves.

The extra difficulty comes when we have pursued knowledge, wisdom and learning and yet we still fail. We know we are capable of more and yet we are still incapable. Feelings of such abject helplessness in the face of what we know to be true is the "monkey mind" going all-in (to use poker terminology). Our consciousness has the winning hand, we just need the confidence to play it . . .

To use terminology closer to home, The Force is with us, we need only to call on it.

"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving."
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher . . . or, as his wife would have it, an idiot" Douglas Adams
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21 Mar 2017 10:28 #278755 by Amyntas
Amyntas replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
I see what you mean Loudzoo

People develop an obsession with wanting to become—become free from fear and boredom ; become a more interesting person; become relaxed; become fulfilled; become happy. They get stuck in this desperation and then stay the same , driving them up the wall , lonelyness and despair hits , its daunting.
This is where the importance of just Being came into play for me , when i started noticing i got stuck , i started to make a 180 degree turn everytime i faced something i did not like , well that did not work out either so i started digging further and i noticed how living in the Now changed everything , because really , what ever thoughts you have , you have them Now

Acting mindfully and being aware of the now is beginning to change everything for me.
Eckhart Tolle says , “…the past gives you an identity and the future holds the promise of salvation, of fulfillment in whatever form. Both are illusions.”
When you go down this path of the Force you very soon discover , you dont know who you are , you are not who you say you are , your are not who you are supposed to be. Like you said Loudzoo we need to tap into the Force as it is always there for us and waiting ...
In the meantime , i watched the video's and i think there are a few things that we can start doing without any harm to our progress
Acceptance of who you are
Learning to foster greater acceptance for your thoughts and feelings, other people, events beyond your control, and the beliefs you hold . By doing so you can break away from your preoccupation with fear and focus upon your recovery.
Commitment
Commit yourself to change , focus upon moving toward the things that really matter in your life.
Behavior
By becoming more mindfull i saw that my behaviour changed , learning that whatever issues and circumstances the thoughts that ruled my perception, could push me away from the things that i held dear , so i focussed on keeping my thoughts in check with what was dear to me . Meaning , we have a choice , this can be painfull choices , distress and conflict are part of life as much as happiness and bliss

And believe me , we all have a long way to go , it might seem that some have it more together than others , and there is the loud ones and the quiet once , there is no scale of suffering , there is no comparing of pain. we all have to deal with this , one hand reaching out the other being bitten , its all part of the greater good we are part of.
May the Force be with you in all of this :)
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21 Mar 2017 16:04 #278768 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
Obligatory reminder that anxiety disorders are serious mental issues and not just fleeting, everyday fears.
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21 Mar 2017 18:39 - 21 Mar 2017 18:54 #278781 by JamesSand
JamesSand replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity

Obligatory reminder that anxiety disorders are serious mental issues and not just fleeting, everyday fears.


(Didn't see the videos so not sure if it comes up there) - As far as this thread goes, you're the first person to use the word disorder.

Suffering from anxiety =/= diagnosis

much like eating a salad =/= vegan.

Within and of your statement - You're not wrong, I'm just clarifying that one does not have to have something plucked from the DSM to have a right to life sucking / mental distress.
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2017 18:54 by JamesSand.
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21 Mar 2017 19:28 - 21 Mar 2017 19:29 #278786 by steamboat28
steamboat28 replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity
"feeling anxious" != having anxiety.

There is a difference in feeling slightly nervous or apprehensive or afraid of a thing and having a crippling reaction to a stimulus. I made this point because so often in the space of this "Temple", mental disorders are handwaved by positive thinking, or clever philosophy, or meditation suggestions, adding to the misunderstanding of mental illness. Knowing more than a handful of people here who suffer from one mental disorder or another, and personally suffering from a few myself, it pains me to see the community at large continue to willfully misunderstand the nature of mental illness and be careless with their words, suggestions, and attitudes in regards to those of us who fight our own minds daily.

I refuse to refrain from speaking my mind on this topic any and every time it comes up, and I will not be "clarified" in an effort to silence my opinion, one-up me, or get the last word in.
Last Edit: 21 Mar 2017 19:29 by steamboat28.
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21 Mar 2017 19:38 #278788 by Amyntas
Amyntas replied the topic: Deconstructing Anxiety and Constructing Identity

steamboat28 wrote: "feeling anxious" != having anxiety.

There is a difference in feeling slightly nervous or apprehensive or afraid of a thing and having a crippling reaction to a stimulus. I made this point because so often in the space of this "Temple", mental disorders are handwaved by positive thinking, or clever philosophy, or meditation suggestions, adding to the misunderstanding of mental illness. Knowing more than a handful of people here who suffer from one mental disorder or another, and personally suffering from a few myself, it pains me to see the community at large continue to willfully misunderstand the nature of mental illness and be careless with their words, suggestions, and attitudes in regards to those of us who fight our own minds daily.

I refuse to refrain from speaking my mind on this topic any and every time it comes up, and I will not be "clarified" in an effort to silence my opinion, one-up me, or get the last word in.


I agree with you Steam , its my opinion that if people are suffering from a disorder/mental illness they should find the proper help because we here at the Temple can do little more than give advice on meditation and such , we are not a mental hospital , nor are we equiped or even allowed as far as i know to treat people with those disorders , we can talk to the clergy and they can direct us to the proper authorities on councelling and psychological help. I have been yelled at and humiliated here because i put this forward to someone who i thought was in need of this help , that we could not help , its painfull , but all we can really do imo is give some tips , but obviously we always come short if someone is really disturbed.
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