Guns in America

I am very sceptical about government control of weapons. Their desire to control is ancient and started with sword hunt type activities well before any desire for the common mans well being was considered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_hunt

Several times in Japanese history, the new ruler sought to ensure his position by calling a sword hunt Armies would scour the entire country, confiscating the weapons of the enemies of the new regime. In this manner, the new ruler sought to ensure that no one could take the country by force as he had just done.

I'd love to think we are immune in our modern civilised age but not so long ago....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany

Disarming Jews in Nazi Germany

On November 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons was promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews living in those locations of the right to possess any form of weapons including truncheons, knives, or firearms and ammunition. Some police forces used the pre-existing "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on the basis "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy'".

I guess the point here is that there is a very real dark side to weapon control. If a governments intentions are true then it should not fear its peoples capacity to control it.

This is interesting.

If Sandy Hook … had what Indiana is promoting in their schools, nobody would have died.

How Indiana Is Tackling Mass Shootings Without Gun Control

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/06/3709027/indiana-mass-shooting-prevention/

Yet another gun massacre has rocked an American learning institution, the 45th school shooting to take place this year. And on both sides of the political spectrum, the responses have been as predictable as the shooting itself — the left argues for gun control; the right argues for more guns.

It is perhaps the most fiercely divisive issue in American politics. Since 20 children and six adults were gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut in 2012, there have been 142 school shootings — at least 33 of which involved fatalities, according to Everytown For Gun Safety. Still, on the issue of gun control, the political lines have been firmly drawn. Nothing has been done, and there has been no indication that anything will be done. There is no middle ground.

If Sandy Hook … had what Indiana is promoting in their schools, nobody would have died.
But as the debate rages on, some are wondering whether anything can be done in the meantime to protect schools from active shooters.

One group thinks there is, and that it’s playing out in Indiana. Continue reading at http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/06/3709027/indiana-mass-shooting-prevention/ .

where i work has that....plus numerous code locked doors...and several veterans on staff....

Br. John wrote: This is interesting.

If Sandy Hook … had what Indiana is promoting in their schools, nobody would have died.

How Indiana Is Tackling Mass Shootings Without Gun Control

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/06/3709027/indiana-mass-shooting-prevention/

Yet another gun massacre has rocked an American learning institution, the 45th school shooting to take place this year. And on both sides of the political spectrum, the responses have been as predictable as the shooting itself — the left argues for gun control; the right argues for more guns.

It is perhaps the most fiercely divisive issue in American politics. Since 20 children and six adults were gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut in 2012, there have been 142 school shootings — at least 33 of which involved fatalities, according to Everytown For Gun Safety. Still, on the issue of gun control, the political lines have been firmly drawn. Nothing has been done, and there has been no indication that anything will be done. There is no middle ground.

If Sandy Hook … had what Indiana is promoting in their schools, nobody would have died.
But as the debate rages on, some are wondering whether anything can be done in the meantime to protect schools from active shooters.

One group thinks there is, and that it’s playing out in Indiana. Continue reading at http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/06/3709027/indiana-mass-shooting-prevention/ .

I think these are the things that make a lot more sense than banning guns. Harden schools. It will cost more but I'd be willing to pay for it rather than have guns banned. I still think having an trained, armed person in the school also makes sense.

I find the idea of having armed personnel and bullet proof schools ludicrous. Education shouldn't need to be defended with weapons and armour, not in the 21st century, not in America. If you have to send your child to a school that could double as a prison, something has seriously gone wrong.

It is good that people are starting to look for other solutions, especially given the fact that prohibition isn’t having the desired result but I don’t believe that turning schools into fortresses is a positive step. To me it is like prohibition that treats the symptom and not the cause.

I think if real solutions are to be found then detailed study of previous events is critical. To this end the most important question to me is why are mass shootings increasing in frequency? What has changed that drives more people to this point? Prohibitions are only increasing so what are the real causes.

One thing I have noticed is timing. The Dunblane school massacre in Scotland was big news in Australia with extensive media coverage. A month later we suffered Port Arthur. Our next shooting (Monash University) happened during the Beltway sniper attacks in the USA. The sniper attacks were also receiving extensive media coverage at the time. Is media coverage a factor in some shootings? Do some people see these events on TV and decide that it is the answer to their problem?

Now our lives are easier and less connected to nature are we becoming more mentally fragile? Like the increasing rate of obesity are we victims of our own success?

Our government won’t trust us with nail files and we are almost constantly involved in war somewhere. Fear and mistrust is rife. Is this changing our psyche somehow?

That's brilliant! I'm sharing that on Let's Regroup! Thank you Br. John!

Edan wrote: I find the idea of having armed personnel and bullet proof schools ludicrous. Education shouldn't need to be defended with weapons and armour, not in the 21st century, not in America. If you have to send your child to a school that could double as a prison, something has seriously gone wrong.

Unfortunately, something HAS gone seriously wrong in this country.

As much as I despise Dick Cheney, he made an accurate point when he said "you don't go to war with the army you want; you go to war with the army you have." We can talk about all of our wants and wishes of how to create a utopian society, and sit around holding hands, singing Kumbaya, but the reality is that the shit is in the toilet, and we have to deal with the situation as it is presented to us, not the situation that we want to want it to be.

Do I like the idea of bullet proof schools, and armed guards? No, but we have to solve today's problem before we can work on tomorrow's. Will going to an outright Australian style ban stop the violence? Absolutely not, because it does not address the core problem - that there are too many disenfranchised and violent people in this country, and no amount of laws and regulations is going to stop them from committing violence. America was founded on gun violence; it has always been a part of our culture, but what has changed to make this an epidemic now?

It's time to address the real problem - the degradation of our society!

We are Jedi; we are the peacekeepers of our planet; we are the healers of our planet. In the immortal words of JFK - "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country!" It's time to stop asking the government for solutions and roll up our sleeves and make a difference in our communities, one person at a time. The majority of the lone gunman shooters that we have encountered have the same basic profile - young; male; disillusioned; semi-unstable; quiet; keep to themselves; etc... It's time to be a good neighbor. How many of us know our neighbors? There was a time that I knew all of my neighbors. Our kids played together in the street; we had potlucks and BBQs; we watched each others homes when we were on vacation; we swept our sidewalks; we watched out for the elderly; etc...

Someone has to step forward and say "I will be the change!" It is time for the Jedi to step to the forefront and take the lead - be the change you wish to see in the world!

Rick D wrote:
America was founded on gun violence; it has always been a part of our culture, but what has changed to make this an epidemic now?

Except this is wrong. If you go back to my posts of the most recent available FBI data violent crime rates have gone DOWN each year by their own reporting while murder rates have held steady at .5 to .6 percent of all deaths. That is not an epidemic. Its not even statistically noteworthy. PERCEPTION of crime is up but not actual crime. Among first world nations including the US crime has been going down steadily for something like the last ten years with the occasional minor up swing usually due to economic issues.

MadHatter wrote: RyuJin as am I so you can guess why such a statement would bug me. Further I cant detect sarcasm on the internet and far too many people would actually mean what you said for me to tell who is joking and who is not.

Further Biometrics SUCK. They fail when you need them most and frankly adding one more item to fail on a life saving tool is just foolish. Add to this that I do not want my fiance to have to worry about oh crap is this gun coded to Hatter or myself if we ever need the firearm. Having it so you cant allow anyone to use your firearm is just foolish and cumbersome.

To close if you dont think the government would demand shut down capabilities on any electronic lock out devices you are far more trusting of them then I am.

I agree that there is huge risk in letting the government shut down a firearm via remote, that's why I sorta cringed when I was typing that last post. And the police can already shut down some newer model car engines via remote too. The country is between a rock and hard place I guess. Though biometrics might cut back on some of the black market activity, I agree that there are a ton of risks that need sorted out first.

Also, for the people that posted that the 2nd Amendment is no longer relevant, are you aware of the original intent of the amendment? It is specifically aimed at giving citizens the right to own firearms for not only protection from crime but also in case a tyrant were to take power in government. A great deal of the constitution is designed to ensure the limitations of government so that we wouldn't have to deal with another monarchy.

So in addition to protecting yourself against crime, firearms are available to law-abiding citizens so that we are not defenseless against our own government. There are many refugees who have come to America to escape tyrannical regimes in their home countries. It would be naive to say "It couldn't happen here in America". The examples of 1984 and Starship Troopers are extreme but interesting. I think if such an abuse of power in government were to occur it would be even more subtle and deceiving, right under our noses.

I know some will disagree, but the "Communism" that the government used as an excuse to invade Vietnam was later renamed "Terrorism" and was used to invade Iraq. The "isms" are scare tactics to get the American people to accept an expensive "nation-building" war agenda. Terrorism was also the word used to justify the Patriot Act and illegal phone tapping. And it doesn't matter if a polictician calls themselves Republican or Democrat, they are only a pawn. Will the violence here in America be an excuse for the government to take severe action against a disarmed public domestically?