Your Ideal Temple - What dreams are made of

That is really really awesome
from my perspective this entire unpleasantry was nothing more than the opportununity for us all to OVERTLY STATE OUR UNITY

Lest you think me daft i understand the situation like this

"everybody" wants a temple but in years of discussion and debate no one realistic method of making that happen has been applied
I say "no one realistic method applied" because i dont know precisely what if anything has been tried but whatever it was its construction was missing some element that was necessary to survive the actual experience
that this is was begun as a "what dreams are made of" thread bears this out. Obviously if something solid were in place it would be a "what you can do.to.help" thread

so heres the first thing i can do to help

lets get some.core tenents agreed upon and set the framework for success
youre (meaning SOMEONE) probably reading this thinking "well i wish you would already"
so ok

1) it is possible. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE
it is so important to realize this, today of all days
Dr Kings legacy IS colorblind because what he really did was show us that WE HAVE POWER to do ANYTHING! It starts with one person. ME

2) it is *my* responsibility to contribute fearlessly and whole heartedly as soon as it becomes clear what my contribution will be

3) everyone can do SOMETHING no matter what. i personally have some experience as a community organizer and as afundraiser and i can tell you that money can be found and im not just going to say that and expect you to believe me. I'll get to some specifics in a minute.
the important thing right now is that it must be understood that it is necessarily an individuals participation which matters and not necessarily an individuals money.

basically its the same for everybody
everybody wants to go to heaven but no one wants to be killed
everybody wants a temple
nobody wants to invest themselves in something that isnt going a work and isnt being treated seriously.
so
4) it will start actually WORKING when I get involved and treat it seriously.
as long as im not involved its not going to work.
"for want of a nail, the kingdom fell"
until i get involved I AM that nail.

basically those are all variants of the same rule
and the degree to which we improve our lives is in direct proportion to the degree to which we understand this rule.

thats the contextual foundation for individual involvement.
i thank for your patience everybody for whom rule has already been adopted, it was necessary to establish it before moving to the next set of rules

1) we are a TALENT POOL not a money pool
when i said everybody can do something i meant several things.
first of all, let me reiterate that contributing your money is not by any means the most important contribution you can make.
each of our contributions is going to be a matter of our own individiual awesomeness.

2) We are all awesome people. you have to understand and accept your own "im a badass" vision first.

The proccess has specific steps or phases which repeat in cycles with every next step or phase
At every step the proccess repeats itself
it looks essentially like this;

Declaration of Intent

Roster Count or Statement of Unity

Intellectual Participation

Unity of Vision/Selection of Goals

Specific Challenges

Talent pool and Resource Analysis

Likely Solutions and Thier Specific Requirements

Realistic Timeline

Chain of Command and Division of Labour

Execution, Refinement, and Collective Support of Individual Tasks and Goals

Collective Picture of Individual Efforts

Review of Effectiveness

Adjustmet

This is the basic formula for doing anything in the world

from civil rights to special forces

every step is kind of self explanatory but there are specifis to be hashed out and theres always real world things that happen which can fit multiple categories
the important thing is to realize that its a map not a bible

people get all bent out of shape about how perfect the bible is but then they let people change it and they support that change by buying and beliving in new translations without really questioning or arguing over whose changing it and why.
so every generation takes bible thumpers less and less seriously

contrarily

nobody has any problems with changing a map if it can be improved
so the good ones dont really have to be improves because they work.
But if they didnt then we would change change them and nobody would see anything wrong with that.
So we all respect Rand Mcnally regardless of our age or cultural cynicism

Where we are right now;

Right now we are in Roster Count and Intellectual Participation

Thats it

WHO IS WILLING TO PARTICIPATE INTELLECTUALLY?


so i said id give some specific ideas about money and now i will but i want to express overtly that we are not in the "what about money" stage yet.
but everybodies worried about it so ill give just some few examples to illustrate that there ARE things we can do.
again, these are not meant to be the definite solutions to money issues because we havent reached the solutions phase yet but as illustrative examples of ideas that can spring from the collective with the right contextual framework

1) start a subscription based ezine.
one way to financially support a temple would be to subscribe. tailor the ezine to the recruitment of non jedi and make it cheap.
this increases our ranks while adding to the fund

2) Design a HELP US BUILD A TEMPLE website.
people can use paypal or visa or whatever

3) publish books. everybody condense what being a jedi means to you personally to five lines or less. put all the submissions in one book and call it whispers of the force or the force speaks or the give us money now book - whatever. theres probably copyright issues involved if we make profits using the jedi name but before its accepted that we cant do it lets find out. it might be that george lucas has been watching for years thinking "why havent these guys called me yet?" For all you know I could be george lucas

4) have a bake sale a yard sale and a furniture sale
use your front yard, youre neighborhood, local park. Craigslist. Youtube. pass out flyers. stand out on a corner with a sign.

5) take 100 pictures a day and every week sell them as stock photos. donate a % of your procedes to the website. you can use paypal or visa. whatever

i know that i may be saying things already considered, but thats why its important to follow the steps

even if everything ive said has already been discusssed it doesnt mean that none of it can work, or that something else cant be thought of

the important part is to contribute your ideas and your positivity

As far as the camp;

Anyone who can come up with accurate information is welcome to add to this proposal.

This assumes we do things ourselves as much as possible.

First, gather as much information as we can on the cost of the property, the necessary repairs, the necessary tax information, the necessary insurance information, the number of people willing to put their own time into achieving this goal, their skills, their financial leeway, and their proximity to the location.

Since this is literally right down the street from me, and until I find another job, I have nothing but spare time and ambition, so I'm already willing to put hours in on this along with what knowledge I have in carpentry, electrical, plumbing, and groundskeeping.

After the total costs have been assessed, get estimates from the necessary contracting companies to do the work we can't such as checking for underground structures, repairing or removing them if necessary, and inspecting the existing structures for fire code and safety violations that need to be taken care of. All safety codes need to be met, as well as living standards.

Once we know what needs to be done, get estimates on the costs of materials for the (re)construction aspect and labor costs. If we have a lot of people who can and will donate their time to the effort, we can cut down on contractor costs as much as possible. Factor in all who apply.

As for the funds, it's as simple as active fundraising. Just having a "Donate" button on the top of a website isn't enough. We need to make a full on campaign of it. Pump it full of facts, a lot of which have already been brought to light through this thread alone, and make people want to donate while still adhering to the doctrine. That's what gets you bonus points. Anyone with architectural know-how and CAD software should collaborate on a humble, yet facilitating design that will provide potential donors with a visual aid to see the run down graffiti-ridden camp transformed into a beautiful and breath-taking scene, standing as a beacon of hope and wisdom. By keeping the design simple and monastic as possible, that should also help cut costs. A simple Buddhist-esque monastery probably costs a lot less than the Vatican itself, let alone the whole city. Advertise the fact that not only would the people's donations give us a physical temple to congregate at and compliment our efforts just as any church would for its own religious adherents, but it would also give us a sort of base of operations from which we would be able to better organize community service projects, hold ceremonies such as weddings for the public, and provide a real place for those interested to meet and greet with actual Jedi to learn about Jediism, in a non-proselytizing manner of course.

With the proper marketing, the dream could become a reality sooner than some might expect.

Once everything is said and done --all the estimates are gathered and processed, all the funds are raised, extra emergency funds are set aside, and all the laborers are ready to help out-- we can begin the physical work. Schedule everything to maximize the work we do ourselves and fill in the gaps with contractors. The more constant work we can get done on the place, the better we'll stand and the better image we'll project to the backers by showing them we mean business.

The keys are information, fundraising, scheduling, and efficient action.

I realize this still seems quite a bit vague, but it's honestly the best plan I've got as of now. Judging by the Member Map, NJ isn't exactly swimming with Jedi, but then again, the world wasn't exactly swimming with Christians in the beginning days either. On a comparative scale, Jediism as we know/present/identify it is still relatively young.

Since money is the leading problem, fundraising should be one of the most important steps. This is why I think the marketing aspect of "selling the temple" is critical to success. We don't have to play poor me, try to convert anyone, or evangelize Jediism to make the temple idea interesting enough for people to want to help out by donating.

EGO IS AN ILLUSION
Let go of this debate and be mindful of the now

I am NOT in support of a physical temple at this time. Although something to aspire to, and something if ever takes shape I would happily contribute to in my retirement years I have a career, student loans, a family and things here that I have to take care of. As much as I would love the temple setting, so many people have said this temple here is our home, I love that. A physical place will simply not reach as many people as we can here, I feel this makes a website forum where people can dedicate time as they can is a more universal way to reach folks and over a greater distance.

Has anyone ever worked at a camp? I have, for years. The logistics of a physical camp are tremendous and while not insurmountable, because it can be done, unless you have worked at something like that its not the hundred things I can think of, its the million I cannot that makes that a very difficult challenge. However for the Temple as of now I agree with participating at gatherings, making your own time and space a temple and contribute here when possible.

Every couple weeks this comes up and fades out, Admin is this perhaps something we can put in our FAQ? That although someday at temple would be a great thing its just something that is not feasible now? Although the ideas are great and some very impassioned conversations come out sometimes a lot of times feelings get hurt. Maybe we can steer conversations to other topics such as the gatherings rather than rehash this over and over?

I agree with you Roz, and in no way meant to imply that all this had to be done by every member and done within the next so-and-so weeks/months/years, nor would it become the official Jediism Mecca for all the world's Jedi to use as the sole base of operations.

Just tossing an idea around

I've said in one of my first few posts in this thread that this camp was just one idea literally right down the street from me and other than that I agree with the "this site/wherever Jedi gather/wherever I am is my temple" sentiment.

I feel that, realistically, physical temples would be great to have peppered across the globe, generally in high Jedi-density areas, but they shouldn't take away from the idea that your Jedi temple is wherever your heart lies.

I do, however, plan on one day constructing at the least a small personal temple outside my house to use as a little getaway/meditation chamber/Jediist library/etc. for myself and my family. Simple enough to get the structure up and decorate it with columns from Home Depot and such. A lot cheaper than buying and fixing up an abandoned camp

Maybe personal temples should be looked into a bit more. Come up with a basic design that different members can tweak to fit their needs so that way anyone who can afford to buy the materials and build it themselves or hire a contractor can have one of their own.

See now...That is smarter thinking I can get down on that. Heck, I even have an unused shed I planned to do just that. THAT can work

But that still dosn't solve the larger group aspects of meeting Jedi offline and training.

Last night I wrote up a small "Proposal" just for the heck of it....Its very rough cut and dry and not at all professional But to me and the experience's I have had with gatherings. I feel this route is more "Likely" that an actual temple.

What would be a Reasonable and Obtainable goal to creating a Jedi Retreat/Temple in Kit's eyes?

I am going to use myself as an example. Just because it is easy and I actually have the information on hand for it. (Because I am actually in search of a new home regardless of Jedi and Temples) I will also make note that I will use the term “Retreat” because I personally do not like the term “Temple”

I am currently in search of a new home. The one I am living in is falling apart faster than we can pay for and we want to get it sold and us moved before it falls over our heads. We have two daughters. 3 and 4 years old and we have held over five or so Gatherings/Regional in our own home for 20-31 members over the years before. I would like to hope and believe that my family is at least a bit respected in the community and I am as of this year a recognized Knight by the offline community.

I propose that the Community helped my family to move into a home that would help us... help the community.

What does that mean? It sounds like you just want us to buy you a place to live!

Not exactly. My family would front up most of the cash and expenses for it + utilities and the costs required to continue living there......we would just be asking for help with the extra that we can't afford and just like it is now and has been for years, gatherings would still be held here in michigan, in our home....but now with better, upgraded options!

What are those “Upgrades?”

* One of the properties I am looking at has 5 acres of land. 0_0 That's better than our .whatever small backyard we got now and will allow us to eventually build and expand on this land due to its size.

- This property has a pole barn with Electric and Water which could be refurbished and used as a conference hall for Indoor Jedi meetings and workshops.

- This property is in Michigan which has good soil, sunlight and growing conditions for gardens to grow and produce our own foods.

- This land has it's own Pond (I have such a cool Meditation Niche idea for it too!! )

- This property is walking distance from the local College

- This property is down the road from the local Elementary and Up schools

- This property is down the road from 4 Apartments (One of which I lived in and can attest to it's quality)

- This property is down the road from the Meijiers (Local Supermarket)

- This property is down the road from several Restaurants and food chains

- There is also a K-mart, Sam's Club, Planet Fitness, 4 nearby hotels, Lowels, 2 theaters, Target, a Mall, 3 vets... And....well, you get the idea...its a great location. (Ask anyone who has been to the regional/gatherings held at my place)

- Due to all the local business there are many job opportunities. One of which my husband works at and can refer people into his job for good benefits and pay if one sticks to it.

- There is also an small city town airport

- And my personal favorite...Michigan has a lot of wildlife that goes through this little town city despite all of it's modern attractions. We get deer, turkey, cranes, and other wildlife that are simply amazing to watch. But thats just a fun perk of course lol


How does this help the community? Lets look at some goals.

1. Refurbish the Pole Barn Dojo style! Which means wood floors, fold out mats for training practices, practice weapon racks, a couple of wing chun dummies, grappling dummies, protection sparring armor, Floor Pillows and rugs for meditations, art and crafts stations, presentation tables....We could do a whole lot with a pole barn.

2. Cultivate the land. Make Gardens, and sale the produce at the local Farmers Market. Bring in small livestock (Goats for milk/Chickens for eggs and bees for honey/beeswax/pollen) and sell those too.

3. Cabins - Build small cob home cabins Jedi can rent or live in. I know several Jedi who are struggling with their living conditions and need a place to stay until they get on their feet. Not only could we have Cabins they could stay in. But potential opportunities for them to find jobs and eventually their own homes.

4. Turn the pond into a Meditation Sanctuary

5. Build a security fence around the property for more privacy



I would start out small. Refurbishing the Pole Barn and sticking to that with our usual Gatherings/Regionals for a few years. Once things become stable and looking like it's going to gain more community interest I would start to expand.

The price of Cob Houses vary and would require more research. But I have seen some small one's made for 3000$ of natural materials and would be really fun Jedi training projects!

Everything would be built in stages and over the course of years and Need. As the offline community grows....The Retreat grows with a trusted/capable Steward to upkeep and maintain the lands.

I will take this time to remind everyone that I used myself and this particular property as an example. Naturally....Anyone could do something like this if they have that ability to do so. To me, I feel that this is a far more practical and potential proposal that some of the other requests I have seen throughout the many years.

So why not do this!?! It looks pretty Amazing for all that it has to offer!

Sadly....It is just above our Maximum limit for moving which is $85k to $100k MAX. This property here is about $158k and just over what we can afford so we are forced to turn a blind eye and look for something closer to our pay grade which will likely mean something not so grand and Jedi Community friendly.

One last and most important thing I wanted to point out here. Jedi Gatherings roughly average to about $150 a year. This pays for lodgings, Food, Linens, WiFi ect ect. If this place became the home of a Jedi willing to open it up for future gatherings and training programs, the Prices of these gatherings would go down considerably because the "Needs" would already be covered on the property. So instead of $150 it could drop to simply $50 for food and utility usage costs. ((Jedi use alot of water for showers lol))

As I stated. This was just a rough shot proposal for the heck of it and I only used myself as an easy example. Anyone could do this. I know a few Jedi who have the land and abilities to set something like this up easily....they just lack the Initiative to do it and the extra costs to raise a pole barn.

Edit: I would also like to point out that, even this I see as over reaching. There are alot of issus even with this proposal. Sure I could set up a Kickstarter fundraising for it...for example. But by the time we raised money for it...the property will likely be gone. Among alot of others road blocks. The point is though....No matter how far reaching it is....Finding a regular home with a regular plot of land makes more sense to me than say...an abandoned military base

I was going through the TOTJO library yesterday listening to the video's and reading and such. Something BR.John said really stuck with me, he said that a temple was his life, his actions , what was within.
As nice as a physical temple would be, a physical temple can be destroyed, sabotaged and whenever you build something there will always be folk's that oppose.
We all have a place inside us, a special quiet place where we can focus on all we believe. I think that will always be enough for me. I am a temple and just as you would build a temple with bricks, I build myself with faith and focus and nothing can ever destroy that, yes storms will come and rattle you down to the foundation but it can never, ever fall.
Of course if there was to be a physical temple i would gladly attend but i would always keep in mind that, my beliefs and faith come from within me all i have to do is sit and focus. i can do that anywhere in the world. Building's are impermanent, the Force, eternal.

I think having a spot in different environments would be ideal. Like have a Temple in a metropolis, and then have one in a big open country side, one in a poverish place, etc. So that no matter who you are you are welcomed into the Temple. Also I think that having one big Temple somewhere (like what ParCandroon said) wouldn't be too efficient for every one, instead I think that having small little places around the world could then turn into perhaps a bigger Temple.

Kitsu Tails
the first thing i have to say is that i feel a bit more reservation about the personal element in your proposal.
Like - if an abandoned camp covered in grafiti doesnt work out then oh well, no harm no foul, it was good excersize for the next project.

but if i "play around" with someones dream home, and things dont work out, or hopes are let down, or expectations are not reached, then that could potentially be painful for your family and for this community
and my participation, and thus responsibility, for such a thing would be a huge stain on my conscience.

so i want to say that at a personal level i support your idea and i would be willing to make a commitment of time and effort - i happen to be in need of a service project in any event - but i do not have the contextual reference points of the history and nature of this community for judging the likely balance between

how much good can i help facilitate here in service to a family and a community?

and

how much damage am i going to cause if i help make the wrong decisions?

this issue (and one other thing of more personal levelto me) kept me thinking all day long

i mean, to be frank with you, what if you dont get the support from the community thatyou would like?
what if people that you would expect to help, didnt?

im not saying thsts what would happen
I am only saying that there is as i said a personal level to your proposition which urges a higher degree of sensitivity.

i think i would say this, i would be very happy to take an advisory and supportive role, and in that capacity i would be willing to expend a significant degree of personal energy and time (say two to three hours a day 5 days a week WHILE I HAVE NO OTHER PROJECTS, which i would if the vernon property shows to be reasonable, and not less than one hour a day 5 days a week regardless of any other obligations i may make), up until may, when i go to school.

thats what i feel i personally can commit to reasonably

OB1Shinobi wrote: Kitsu Tails
the first thing i have to say is that i feel a bit more reservation about the personal element in your proposal.
Like - if an abandoned camp covered in grafiti doesnt work out then oh well, no harm no foul, it was good excersize for the next project.

Is that the value of a Jedi Temple to you? Something you can just let go to the dog house and toss aside as "Good Exersize" and move on to the next best thing?

But if i "play around" with someones dream home, and things dont work out, or hopes are let down, or expectations are not reached, then that could potentially be painful for your family and for this community
and my participation, and thus responsibility, for such a thing would be a huge stain on my conscience.

The whole purpose of my proposal is so that someone is living on the site, maintaining it, upkeeping it, nurturing it and ensuring it is a safe place for Jedi to come to. If a Jedi "Plays around" and causes such chaos and strife...then he is likely not a Jedi and should be shooed off the grounds. A proper Warden of land would be able to recognize and stop such troubles before it reaches "Painful for family and community"

so i want to say that at a personal level i support your idea and i would be willing to make a commitment of time and effort - i happen to be in need of a service project in any event - but i do not have the contextual reference points of the history and nature of this community for judging the likely balance between

how much good can i help facilitate here in service to a family and a community?

and

how much damage am i going to cause if i help make the wrong decisions?

this issue (and one other thing of more personal levelto me) kept me thinking all day long

There is risk no matter what the proposal is. My proposal is based off of what is already taking place. My family holds gatherings and workshops out of our home and land all the time. My family helps Jedi who are struggling, homeless, and in need of a place to stay, our home has done everything that the proposal is shaped out of....Only difference is that it gives us a better opportunity to help due to the "Upgrade" in house and land. (And as I said before...Using myself as an example not the RIGHT option or course to go....just easy to use myself as examples)

i mean, to be frank with you, what if you dont get the support from the community that you would like?
what if people that you would expect to help, didnt?

The subject here isn't really about support for my family. It is about providing a Retreat for Jedi in what I consider to be a more practical and sound method. If people don't donate to the cause then A: There loss and B: I told you so? Ok maybe not that rude But really I don't lose anything out of it...just means I find my family a cheaper, smaller, less land home that we can afford on our own. Which is what were doing anyways.

To me. Every temple and place of sanctuary has its Warden or Steward. Someone who lives there and nurtures the grounds, keeps it safe and readily available to it's "Followers" I believe finding some old camp or building and leaving it unattended is the worst thing a person can do for a temple and leaves it open for vandals and homeless to wreck and destroy which no longer makes it valuable as a temple and instead just a waist of the communities Funds and Faith in the project. A temple should be placed in the hands of someone the community can trust or not at all.