Your Ideal Temple - What dreams are made of

Kitsu Tails wrote: I take your words as quite insulting to the work I've done for the Jedi since 2004 Ghostdog. But I will forgive on the basis that you do not know me, nor have you met me, seen my work or know what experiences I have in "Shoveling horse manure" Instead of judging me and my words as "knowing it all" you could perhaps consider them and find the value's in what I say to work towards a reasonable conclusion. *bows*

you are continuing to take my words out of context to derail the thread as has been done numerous times on this forum. i see the spirit behind the non believers.

If I might... Maybe I can help provide a little context here.

Ghost, Kitsu (and many other Old Guard Jedi) have been working and investing in the Jedi Path for many, many years. The movement online began in 1995, and some say it was begun even earlier in the hearts and minds of people who followed the Lore's teachings. Of course, Jediism as we teach and believe here has been around since Creation itself.

In a way, we have built up an infrastructure. We have Jedi Gatherings, which will organically grow into Temples someday. There's already a direction and seeds being planted.

I think one of Kit's goals is to consolidate the Gatherings and meet ups. Not forcing them to be standardized or anything, but rather to have a sense of solidarity between the offline presence of Jedi.

When people circumvent that and try to start building from the ground up, I see that as a missed opportunity to just catch up with the rest of the group. There's no need to start over again. Of course, if you want to start from the ground up, that's your decision. But, there's no need to put down or belittle the work that has already been done in the name of Jedi progress.

Connor L. wrote: If I might... Maybe I can help provide a little context here.

Ghost, Kitsu (and many other Old Guard Jedi) have been working and investing in the Jedi Path for many, many years. The movement online began in 1995, and some say it was begun even earlier in the hearts and minds of people who followed the Lore's teachings. Of course, Jediism as we teach and believe here has been around since Creation itself.

In a way, we have built up an infrastructure. We have Jedi Gatherings, which will organically grow into Temples someday. There's already a direction and seeds being planted.

I think one of Kit's goals is to consolidate the Gatherings and meet ups. Not forcing them to be standardized or anything, but rather to have a sense of solidarity between the offline presence of Jedi.

When people circumvent that and try to start building from the ground up, I see that as a missed opportunity to just catch up with the rest of the group. There's no need to start over again. Of course, if you want to start from the ground up, that's your decision. But, there's no need to put down or belittle the work that has already been done in the name of Jedi progress.

i wasn't putting down or belittling in this thread. i was talking about my own personal experience. and like Kit said, i've never met him, so why he chose claim personal insult is something i have no control over. it was like he was taking two parts out of what i had said and then redefining and ill-defining them from the way I had intended them to be. so i wanted to address it to clarify what my meaning was.

now this thread has been totally derailed into a war on semantics, and I believe that it was intentional. It has happened over and over and over again. If the detractors feel that personal insults and attacking beliefs is played out then they move to picking apart your words and taking them out of context.

Ghostdog, you should choose your words more carefully then. Because I, too, saw an insult there using "horse manure". It's the "quality" of the words "horse manure". Earlier you used the Pyramids, so I'll use that as an example of how you could have used a better example- something like "if you've never cut a stone into a block" would have been more apt.

Here's the reality, anyone can shovel horse manure. It's not the shoveling part that makes the task difficult, it's knowing what to do with it afterwards. If you merely dispose of it into the trash, then you miss out on the opportunity to either sell it for a profit, or put it to use on a farm that could generate fresh food for yourself.

Now, to clarify Kitsu's (a woman, btw) position. Money is in fact the problem. The majority of Jedi don't make enough as a whole. Just getting people to be able to give up $100 to attend a gathering for 4 days (once a year), which includes a place to sleep, and food is difficult. That is even for people that can car pool with others that have the means to easily transport those that do not have the finances to drive themselves. Our community is poor (financially). We have people working on getting their finances up, there was even a plan to help put finances back into the project by having a temple set up as a full on business that would be able to offer Jedi jobs in the form of a high class resort. Discounts would go to the Jedi Community to run our gatherings out of it. Problems varied greatly- location, location, location. Initial funding to build the resort. Etc, etc. There is still a woman out there trying to see if she can do it by attempting to build up funds through massage therapy and other alternative healing techniques.

MONEY is everything. After that, when the finances are worked out, then it's WHERE? This is a worldwide group, we are scattered across the four winds. If we could only build one, and the money was being pulled from everyone across the community- which would be the most fair location? England? Somewhere in America (to which, WHERE in America?)? Some obscure location in the middle of no where? People need to be able to easily get there, and it's just not feasible- because everyone lacks the funds to even make the idea worthwhile.

I've been waiting to get in on this conversation, because I wanted to try and put up my own design like what Kit had. The shapes were more about me having some fun with iPages, not really how I want the areas to be shaped, lol.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Ghostdog, you should choose your words more carefully then. Because I, too, saw an insult there using "horse manure". It's the "quality" of the words "horse manure". Earlier you used the Pyramids, so I'll use that as an example of how you could have used a better example- something like "if you've never cut a stone into a block" would have been more apt.

Here's the reality, anyone can shovel horse manure. It's not the shoveling part that makes the task difficult, it's knowing what to do with it afterwards. If you merely dispose of it into the trash, then you miss out on the opportunity to either sell it for a profit, or put it to use on a farm that could generate fresh food for yourself.

Now, to clarify Kitsu's (a woman, btw) position. Money is in fact the problem. The majority of Jedi don't make enough as a whole. Just getting people to be able to give up $100 to attend a gathering for 4 days (once a year), which includes a place to sleep, and food is difficult. That is even for people that can car pool with others that have the means to easily transport those that do not have the finances to drive themselves. Our community is poor (financially). We have people working on getting their finances up, there was even a plan to help put finances back into the project by having a temple set up as a full on business that would be able to offer Jedi jobs in the form of a high class resort. Discounts would go to the Jedi Community to run our gatherings out of it. Problems varied greatly- location, location, location. Initial funding to build the resort. Etc, etc. There is still a woman out there trying to see if she can do it by attempting to build up funds through massage therapy and other alternative healing techniques.

MONEY is everything. After that, when the finances are worked out, then it's WHERE? This is a worldwide group, we are scattered across the four winds. If we could only build one, and the money was being pulled from everyone across the community- which would be the most fair location? England? Somewhere in America (to which, WHERE in America?)? Some obscure location in the middle of no where? People need to be able to easily get there, and it's just not feasible- because everyone lacks the funds to even make the idea worthwhile.

I've been waiting to get in on this conversation, because I wanted to try and put up my own design like what Kit had. The shapes were more about me having some fun with iPages, not really how I want the areas to be shaped, lol.

the pyramid example was to show that amazing, enduring feats can be accomplished. i'm going to ignore people that want to argue semantics right after i start another thread for the people who want to argue semantics.

anyone can shovel horse manure, but some people refuse to shovel horse manure, instead they supply acoustic manure.

and after you rate the quality of my words you say some useful stuff, thanks.

i'm am aware of the important of finances. my money is not that big of an issue stance is reference to modest endeavors of people who join together to form local training grounds, communities, temples or what have you. there are plentiful examples of this that you can research online.


the horse manure is the perfect example of what i am talking about and the pyramid is as well. horses still crap, the manure still needs shoveling, non pertinent acoustic manure is still reverberating worldwide, and the pyramids are still standing for everyone to see.

All I have done was point out that Jedi are already meeting offline at gatherings and even local chapters who have meet up's almost weekly if not at least once or two times a month. I mention, support, and re-iterate this to back up Br, John's words that....instead of trying to start from ground zero.... we should support the efforts already in progress.

I was also using gatherings to illustrate a point about level of commitment, effort, work and requirements it takes to run offline groups of Jedi....such as a temple and stating that, through experience, I can plainly attest that yes. Money does actually mean a whole lot, and that it doesn't matter who steps up to the plate to make something work.....at the end of the day. It will depend on one person to ensure the end goal becomes completed...or not. And that one goal is going to need some serious cash to do it.

You however come back with posts about the integrity of people and their intentions of this thread and were in opposition of what I was stating. What else was I to assume except that you were being insulting instead of communicating? I do not, nor have I ever, entered any thread with any ill intentions of derailing or ill defining anything. Im just repeating what you said, and stating that I do not appreciate your words.

Simple fact of the matter is. Jedi gatherings and Chapters have been a working and growing project since 2002 and has plenty of evidence of it's success. Jedi temples however has been a topic of conversation since 1998 with many supposed people who claim its no big deal and still...we have no temple to show for it. One has value and the other does not. The one that is successful also fits in line with the majority of Jedi who feel a Jedi Temple is "Everywhere" and not a singular location.

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And *Sigh* I meant to "Thank" Aleatheas post not Ghosts....stupid forum jumped on me.

I think one of Kit's goals is to consolidate the Gatherings and meet ups. Not forcing them to be standardized or anything, but rather to have a sense of solidarity between the offline presence of Jedi.

Yes.

Im new here
Hi
im me
youre you
cool if its ok ill just talk like we're all equals

first of all i dont think anybody here, from what i have seen in THIS discussion, is intentionally trying to bring dischord or intentionally trying to be disrespectful and secondly i dont think it matters if they were.

THEY is never the issue always I
I I I
its impossible to argue on the internets and NOT be responsible for the argument
if youre still typing
and youre not typing something with a positive destination in mind
then yourre words are fueling the problem

My set pat and standardized conflict resolution goto survival manual clearly states that we are in fact all on the same side

or we will be when thecatastrophe hits.

I dont feel.this thread has been derailed because it looks to me like the underlying issue is one that will continue to poison if it is not resolved

theres clearly something under the surface of this one conversation thats been around and ISNT GOING ANYWHERE until its addressed healthily

kitsu, im new obviously
but its clear to me from yours and others words that youve invested a lot of yourself in this community, working very hard so that jedi everybody has a place where tthey can meet up as often as realistically achievable. Its really difficult to OVERstate how valuable that kind of effort is to a community
especially a young one

it is no less than the truth to say that people like Kitsu Tails are the glue that keeps things together as well as the engine that keeps them going in any and every community
it doesnt happen without people like you

it appears to me that at a not-quite-at-the-surface level you feel insulted by the idea of a temple happening without it coming from.....
what?
what if the temple comes from a source you havent anticipated?

If theoretically someone in this forum suggests a temple site and it is discovered upon investigation that the suggestion is in fact a realistic possibility? Lets go even further
do you want tto be responsible for missing an opportunity that maybe the force itself is suggesting to the community at large?

Im not saying thats whats happeni g here
im saying that if for instance the conversation we were having leads nowhere and results in nothing then what harm really in us talking about it?

I mean
if we're the type to sit around and talk but never actuly do any of what we say then we probably werent gonna show up at tthe gatherings either anyway

So really this does t detract from you efforts
i dont feel.theres many people who WERE going to attend the gathering who now WONT because of our co versation.

I think that the money thing is a big question mark for a lot of people

We tend to feel.like because we are not finacially poweful as individuals that it suggests we are equally not powerful as a collective
i know this is not the case
I have been a fundraiser for several causes including the clean air campaign in florida and the human rights campaign when i was in texas (not that hrc is limited to tx by any means)
Im also taking an entrepreneur class at kahn academy

also i am a warrior and a jedi
and i can tell you that the real power of any organisation is its people and its vision

if you dont want a temple fine
Is it really imortant to stop others from "wasting their time"?

I dont like poptarts
youll never find me hanging out in a thread with bunch of people
talking about how cool poptarts are

If i ever contribute to a thread aboutpoptarts i will do so fully aware that these people dont wantnto hear wby pop tarts are a bad idea
THEY DONT POP AND THEYRE NOT TART ITS SO STUPID
You have probably have no waynto relate to me on this but pop tarts really make me mad and im not sure why but i dont like them at all
At A deep.fundamental level we all understand that you do not name a food for the sound made bybthe contraption that heats it up
wht if i out them in the microwave?
BEEPTARTS? no thats stupid!
they have no right to be called.pop tarts

You know what pops? snap crackle pops
pop rocks pop
popcorn pops
even soda pop pops
Pop tarts to not pop
sweet tarts are tart
andnsweeet
so im ok with them

OB1Shinobi wrote: it appears to me that at a not-quite-at-the-surface level you feel insulted by the idea of a temple happening without it coming from.....
what?
what if the temple comes from a source you havent anticipated?

Not at all. If you look at the start of this thread, I posted up my own dream Jedi Retreat that I would love to see happen. I have no issues with a place where Jedi can grow and learn.

If theoretically someone in this forum suggests a temple site and it is discovered upon investigation that the suggestion is in fact a realistic possibility?

I do believe I also said in my previous posts that if someone has that ability. They should do it.

Im not saying thats whats happeni g here
im saying that if for instance the conversation we were having leads nowhere and results in nothing then what harm really in us talking about it?

No one ever stated there was any harm in it. I sure havn't.

I mean
if we're the type to sit around and talk but never actuly do any of what we say then we probably werent gonna show up at tthe gatherings either anyway

Which is precisely why I offered it. Its one thing to shoot nonsense to the wind....and something entirely different to actualy step up and take part of what is there. Lots of people saying "We should do this" .......but then come up with excuses why they themselves can't do it but expect others to have no trouble.

Is it really important to stop others from "wasting their time"?

I do not recall trying to stop people from wasting time 0_o? I do believe that I was encouraging the efforts of creating offline organizations with more practical and realistic means of doing so than what has been suggested in this thread thus far.

Perhaps it would be wise to go back to the start of this thread and re-read the posts I've made objectively? Because your interpretations of my intentions seem quite far off I am afraid.

Ghost said "Money isn't an issue"
I said "Yes it is. Here is why."

Which is the theme of the previous conversation until just recent. Disagreement of with another persons opinions isn't an attempt to beat down that other persons image. Merely an attempt present an opposing view of the subject in the hopes of holding constructive conversation (Which rarely turns out that way it seems)

In the aim of constructive conversation, what if someone could present a realistic model of how to achieve a temple?
if you were convinced that the idea was good and it could work, would you be willing to invest a few hours a week into it?

OB1Shinobi wrote: In the aim of constructive conversation, what if someone could present a realistic model of how to achieve a temple?
if you were convinced that the idea was good and it could work, would you be willing to invest a few hours a week into it?

If I were presented with a Proposal that was logical, properly formatted and represented with reasonable structures of obtaining the goals. (And it was in my ability to aide) Absolutely.