Etymology of the word "Jedi"

I did not study Japanese and am no linguist, so correct me please if I am wrong.

Most know, the word "Jedi" originates from Jidaigeki, the genre which was an inspiration for franchise. This was stated by the creator of franchise, G.Lucas. And we, of course, take the name from franchise, for it is a bright illustration of something in us, the thing we call "Jedi".

Some amateur linguistic research of Japanese roots of the word via Wikipedia and Google translate:

* jidaigeki [時代劇] stands for ~historic drama
--* geki [劇] stands for drama (Gekiga [劇画] is Japanese for "dramatic pictures")
--* jidai [時代] is literally translated as "epoch"/"era"
----* hieroglyph [時] ("Toki") means "time"
----* hieroglyph [代] ("Dài") means "generation"

So, I guess, the Jedi as a name of a group of people would describe them as connected to their epoch. It would be flattering to imply that we the Jedi are defining the epoch or that we are committed to make it better or that we are those who "know the Force".

Yet, IMHO the meaning of the word Jedi is simple: those who are connected to the epoch (through the Force, you may add).

Maybe, this sounds stupid - aren't all people who live today somehow connected to the epoch? I don't think so. I think, most people are not interested in big picture. I don't state that awareness of the epoch is good, and I definitely don't equate it with reading the News. I think that there are two groups of people: the major one, who has enough problems on their own to be constantly aware to the connection with the age and the minor group who manage to find resources for this awareness.

What do you think?

Thanks Den for sharing all your research.

I usually explain the origins of the word Jedi as Lucas' adaptation of this word referring to the Japanese film genre from the 1950's and 60's about the medieval and pre-modern samurai period, the Tokugawa era (1600–1868). Post-war Japanese directors and film viewing public were very interested in this historical period. Especially, I think, because in medieval Japan the samurai were less Imperial and more local. The emotional connection to the epoch is, I think, regarding a deep interest in samurai ethics that were the subject of the films.

Kurosawa's Rashomon is one of the best films ever made. Seven Samurai is an undisputed classic. The Mushasi Trilogy is excellent. A fun 60's B-film series was on the blind swordsman, Zatoichi, and the 2003 remake has some stunningly beautiful cinematography. Another word that describes this film genre is chanbara.

Your interpretation, Den, is emotionally satisfying. Thanks again.

den385,


If I am understanding what you are saying, you are saying that those that are connected to the epoch, are those connected to the era?through the force? I equate being connected to the epoch or era as being aware of your surroundings. Sure, I keep up on the news, and I see the big picture of what is going on in the world. It is horrible and stupid that America lets it happen. I am confused anbout what you mean by "the minor group who manages to find resources for this awareness" What resources are you referring to?

SilverWolf wrote: If I am understanding what you are saying, you are saying that those that are connected to the epoch, are those connected to the era?through the force?

The way I understood it was "people who are in touch with the time in which they live; timely people, present people, contemporary people, people of the now."

I'm very far from being knowledgeable in etymology and just as much from the Japanese language, but I find myself with a somewhat different perception, and interpretation of what your research is expressing (though ultimately, I think it amounts to the same general idea anyway, at least hopefully)... My semantics might be rather custom to my own approach to the terms and likely not what the actual etymology ever meant to say exactly.

My interpretation takes the term "time" into consideration but not necessarily "history" (as in the past), but instead, in the present (the present epoch, the present area, the present moment)... thus - someone who is connected to the present moment in time (one who is aware of true reality, which can only be known in the present moment of time, and is the window to the Force). "Drama" I interpret here as "To play out"... thus "One who plays out (fulfills their purpose) through their awareness (connection) to the present moment of reality (the personal epoch/era)."

@Proteus - I'll answer from pov of my amateur etymology - please, ignore it if it doesn't feel right for you )

1) The word Jedi originates from "jidai" part of "jidaigeki", where "geki" stands for "drama". So, I'd say that there is no "drama" in being a Jedi

2) About translating "jidai" as relating to the "present moment" - IMHO, it's not so. Meiji jidai - that's how they call a historical epoch of Meiji in Japan. So, epoch seems to be the main translation.

Of course, etymology doesn't define the meaning ("semantics") of the word. E.g. if your name is "Jesus" (I've googled that it was 0.155% popular male name in USA for 2005) it doesn't mean you can make miracles or even that you're a decent person. Etymology just brings connotations.

@Alan

Thank you for references! I've seen most of these and you should definitely commit 'em to the "Jedi Movies" -> topic

@SilverWolf

By resources I mean time and energy and conscious effort and meditation to get some sense out of what's happening in the world. News are information, distorted by many things. Politics is just one facet of life. I mean sensing the whole stream of life on the planet - a myriad of flows. Culture, politics, climate, technology, social changes, ethical changes, changes of habits, of style, fashion, trends, economics. And maybe some of this will induce actions of yours.

the word jedhi come from Egypt D'ejehdi
a order of knight/wizards that followed the house of life for the phraoes
the head wizard name was Wjet! sometimes jeht!
egypt name can be spelled like 13 different ways
depending on the time the name is coming from!
De Jehdi means THE JETHI followers of wjet or followers of god of magic THOTH

den385 wrote: @Proteus - I'll answer from pov of my amateur etymology - please, ignore it if it doesn't feel right for you )

1) The word Jedi originates from "jidai" part of "jidaigeki", where "geki" stands for "drama". So, I'd say that there is no "drama" in being a Jedi

2) About translating "jidai" as relating to the "present moment" - IMHO, it's not so. Meiji jidai - that's how they call a historical epoch of Meiji in Japan. So, epoch seems to be the main translation.

Of course, etymology doesn't define the meaning ("semantics") of the word. E.g. if your name is "Jesus" (I've googled that it was 0.155% popular male name in USA for 2005) it doesn't mean you can make miracles or even that you're a decent person. Etymology just brings connotations.

@Alan

Thank you for references! I've seen most of these and you should definitely commit 'em to the "Jedi Movies" -> topic

@SilverWolf

By resources I mean time and energy and conscious effort and meditation to get some sense out of what's happening in the world. News are information, distorted by many things. Politics is just one facet of life. I mean sensing the whole stream of life on the planet - a myriad of flows. Culture, politics, climate, technology, social changes, ethical changes, changes of habits, of style, fashion, trends, economics. And maybe some of this will induce actions of yours.

if you watch starwars everyone thing about is mostly EGYPT/coptic/gnostic
all the clothing designs like teliks and women with beards tattoo a reference to strap on beard of king Tutts MOM!

the only connection to starwars thru japan is the Tri-force worhips of ODIN/Woetan the dragon wizard
and the japaness most evil warlord obonaga -NOBOO NAGA the planet of Naboo!
the snake or serpent or dragon from Naboo? Naga's Snake people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga

FYI if you now anything about the Occult you know that both STAR WARS and STAR TREK BOTH USE THE TRI-FORCE
the Vulcan used has there holy signs just like De jedhi do?

DreadFather wrote: the word jedhi come from Egypt D'ejehdi
a order of knight/wizards that followed the house of life for the phraoes
the head wizard name was Wjet! sometimes jeht!
egypt name can be spelled like 13 different ways
depending on the time the name is coming from!
De Jehdi means THE JETHI followers of wjet or followers of god of magic THOTH

den385 wrote: @Proteus - I'll answer from pov of my amateur etymology - please, ignore it if it doesn't feel right for you )

1) The word Jedi originates from "jidai" part of "jidaigeki", where "geki" stands for "drama". So, I'd say that there is no "drama" in being a Jedi

2) About translating "jidai" as relating to the "present moment" - IMHO, it's not so. Meiji jidai - that's how they call a historical epoch of Meiji in Japan. So, epoch seems to be the main translation.

Of course, etymology doesn't define the meaning ("semantics") of the word. E.g. if your name is "Jesus" (I've googled that it was 0.155% popular male name in USA for 2005) it doesn't mean you can make miracles or even that you're a decent person. Etymology just brings connotations.

@Alan

Thank you for references! I've seen most of these and you should definitely commit 'em to the "Jedi Movies" -> topic

@SilverWolf

By resources I mean time and energy and conscious effort and meditation to get some sense out of what's happening in the world. News are information, distorted by many things. Politics is just one facet of life. I mean sensing the whole stream of life on the planet - a myriad of flows. Culture, politics, climate, technology, social changes, ethical changes, changes of habits, of style, fashion, trends, economics. And maybe some of this will induce actions of yours.

seem like they use a lot of Egypt/jewesh/babylon mystery school of nillism(Gnostic-Gothic/ZEN DEATH SCHOOLS of Buddhism and Hinduism )teachings

both the Fishnets clothing and Punk(punkie)hair styles are like 16000years old egypts(punkies being Gypsies/Irish fairy people)
and also want know more about the holy knights of phraoes house read the book tales of southern egypt
never sleep with De'Jehdi Master wife while he out of town or make a wax alligator eat you and drown you in a pond!

if anyone want to know about world oldest joke? fishnets joke

the reason for punk hair style was keep your head clean and short but still have a covering keep the bugs off you
while your keeping cool, but also because little boy were hard to keep clean so they have there head shavde but for they side pony tail untill around 8-10 birthday at which time they became a MAN and could cut it off and grow there hair the way they wanted, i think that also meant that could get marryed too!

DreadFather wrote: if you watch starwars everyone thing about is mostly EGYPT/coptic/gnostic
all the clothing designs like teliks and women with beards tattoo a reference to strap on beard of king Tutts MOM!

the only connection to starwars thru japan is the Tri-force worhips of ODIN/Woetan the dragon wizard
and the japaness most evil warlord obonaga -NOBOO NAGA the planet of Naboo!
the snake or serpent or dragon from Naboo? Naga's Snake people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga

FYI if you now anything about the Occult you know that both STAR WARS and STAR TREK BOTH USE THE TRI-FORCE
the Vulcan used has there holy signs just like De jedhi do?

DreadFather wrote: the word jedhi come from Egypt D'ejehdi
a order of knight/wizards that followed the house of life for the phraoes
the head wizard name was Wjet! sometimes jeht!
egypt name can be spelled like 13 different ways
depending on the time the name is coming from!
De Jehdi means THE JETHI followers of wjet or followers of god of magic THOTH

den385 wrote: @Proteus - I'll answer from pov of my amateur etymology - please, ignore it if it doesn't feel right for you )

1) The word Jedi originates from "jidai" part of "jidaigeki", where "geki" stands for "drama". So, I'd say that there is no "drama" in being a Jedi

2) About translating "jidai" as relating to the "present moment" - IMHO, it's not so. Meiji jidai - that's how they call a historical epoch of Meiji in Japan. So, epoch seems to be the main translation.

Of course, etymology doesn't define the meaning ("semantics") of the word. E.g. if your name is "Jesus" (I've googled that it was 0.155% popular male name in USA for 2005) it doesn't mean you can make miracles or even that you're a decent person. Etymology just brings connotations.

@Alan

Thank you for references! I've seen most of these and you should definitely commit 'em to the "Jedi Movies" -> topic

@SilverWolf

By resources I mean time and energy and conscious effort and meditation to get some sense out of what's happening in the world. News are information, distorted by many things. Politics is just one facet of life. I mean sensing the whole stream of life on the planet - a myriad of flows. Culture, politics, climate, technology, social changes, ethical changes, changes of habits, of style, fashion, trends, economics. And maybe some of this will induce actions of yours.

DreadFather wrote: the word jedhi come from Egypt D'ejehdi
a order of knight/wizards that followed the house of life for the phraoes
the head wizard name was Wjet! sometimes jeht!
egypt name can be spelled like 13 different ways
depending on the time the name is coming from!
De Jehdi means THE JETHI followers of wjet or followers of god of magic THOTH

Out of curiosity, I looked up the words above in my ancient egyptian dictionary. I'm aware of Wjet under the spelling 'Wadjet' as in the goddess, and the word Djet, as in the name of the pharoah, but I'm struggling to find the other words you've mentioned. Where did you get the information above? I'm interested is all.

has part of the Dejehi they had to bath twice a daily and shave off all there body hair like Buddhist monk shave there head has sign of subservice

DreadFather wrote: seem like they use a lot of Egypt/jewesh/babylon mystery school of nillism(Gnostic-Gothic/ZEN DEATH SCHOOLS of Buddhism and Hinduism )teachings

both the Fishnets clothing and Punk(punkie)hair styles are like 16000years old egypts(punkies being Gypsies/Irish fairy people)
and also want know more about the holy knights of phraoes house read the book tales of southern egypt
never sleep with De'Jehdi Master wife while he out of town or make a wax alligator eat you and drown you in a pond!

if anyone want to know about world oldest joke? fishnets joke

the reason for punk hair style was keep your head clean and short but still have a covering keep the bugs off you
while your keeping cool, but also because little boy were hard to keep clean so they have there head shavde but for they side pony tail untill around 8-10 birthday at which time they became a MAN and could cut it off and grow there hair the way they wanted, i think that also meant that could get marryed too!

DreadFather wrote: if you watch starwars everyone thing about is mostly EGYPT/coptic/gnostic
all the clothing designs like teliks and women with beards tattoo a reference to strap on beard of king Tutts MOM!

the only connection to starwars thru japan is the Tri-force worhips of ODIN/Woetan the dragon wizard
and the japaness most evil warlord obonaga -NOBOO NAGA the planet of Naboo!
the snake or serpent or dragon from Naboo? Naga's Snake people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga

FYI if you now anything about the Occult you know that both STAR WARS and STAR TREK BOTH USE THE TRI-FORCE
the Vulcan used has there holy signs just like De jedhi do?

DreadFather wrote: the word jedhi come from Egypt D'ejehdi
a order of knight/wizards that followed the house of life for the phraoes
the head wizard name was Wjet! sometimes jeht!
egypt name can be spelled like 13 different ways
depending on the time the name is coming from!
De Jehdi means THE JETHI followers of wjet or followers of god of magic THOTH

den385 wrote: @Proteus - I'll answer from pov of my amateur etymology - please, ignore it if it doesn't feel right for you )

1) The word Jedi originates from "jidai" part of "jidaigeki", where "geki" stands for "drama". So, I'd say that there is no "drama" in being a Jedi

2) About translating "jidai" as relating to the "present moment" - IMHO, it's not so. Meiji jidai - that's how they call a historical epoch of Meiji in Japan. So, epoch seems to be the main translation.

Of course, etymology doesn't define the meaning ("semantics") of the word. E.g. if your name is "Jesus" (I've googled that it was 0.155% popular male name in USA for 2005) it doesn't mean you can make miracles or even that you're a decent person. Etymology just brings connotations.

@Alan

Thank you for references! I've seen most of these and you should definitely commit 'em to the "Jedi Movies" -> topic

@SilverWolf

By resources I mean time and energy and conscious effort and meditation to get some sense out of what's happening in the world. News are information, distorted by many things. Politics is just one facet of life. I mean sensing the whole stream of life on the planet - a myriad of flows. Culture, politics, climate, technology, social changes, ethical changes, changes of habits, of style, fashion, trends, economics. And maybe some of this will induce actions of yours.

I'm finding some interesting references to the idea that a name like " D'Jedi " was in fact an Egyptian label. I don't know whether or not the assertions I'm seeing are academically sound, but I'll nevertheless supply a couple of online sources below.

As an aside - it strikes me as entirely possible, even likely, that our modern term "Jedi" stems from multiple sources - Japanese, Egyptian, and maybe even others. The connections to these that were consciously known to George Lucas, and to most people, may not have been conscious -- IMHO aspects of the Force have a way of re-emerging after times when the customs of culture and language seem to have extinguished them.

One reference to an Egyptian source is at http://marahouseluxor.com/gifts-egypt/symbols-of-egypt/raising-the-djed/ . A short excerpt, written by a native of Luxor and with interesting correspondences to the functions of the Jedi as we understand them, reads thusly:

The “Djedi” were the “stable ones”–wisdom keepers of one mind and one spirit who, as initiates of the
Osirian mysteries, comprised the living, terrestrial body of the archetypal, celestial Osiris. Contemporary
Djedi are self-selecting re-generators of cosmos. They are those who, regardless of race or creed, are
awakening to mission in service to the planet and the epochal (emphasis Omhu Cuspor;s)
imperatives of stability, continuity and regeneration. – from “Raising of the Djed” by Moira Timms


Another online source for this theme is at http://people.tribe.net/chaz/blog/548344ab-9d8a-494f-8b76-35132f024ca2# , which in turn cross-references other sources too numerous for me to pursue at the moment - but this web page does have some interesting content of its own.

I find the fact that in the midst of writing this I synchronistially heard music and dialog from the original Star Wars film playing from my neighbor's home as interesting as quitting time on Friday.

That interesting Omhu... I've tried looking for academic references, but all I found was Wikipedia (fail here I think) relating to something that is considered fictional: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedi and Dr Zahi Hawass (was Egyptian Minister of Antiquities if I remember right) also mentioning it as being fictional: http://www.guardians.net/hawass/articles/three_secret_doors_and_the_magician_djedi.htm

Do you know of any academic references? I'm interested in seeing where this all comes from.

I like the multiple source angle too, another one which is not that close, but at least starts with j is;

The word Jainism is derived from the Sanskrit verb root jin ("to conquer"). It refers to a battle with the passions and bodily pleasures that the Jain ascetics undertake. Those who win this battle are termed as Jina (conqueror). The term Jaina is therefore used to refer to laymen and ascetics of this tradition alike.

:lol:
Good topic, thanks!!

den385,

Thank you very much for the clearing up what you meant by resources. I appreciate it.

Edan - I have not as yet found any academic references, but I will look for some. I'm not sure how long the search will take, so stay tuned!

I also want to read the article by Dr. Hiwass that you shared. His name comes up frequently in articles about Eqyptian culture and history.

More to follow . . .

Thanks for the egyptian sources.

I don't know, whether Lucas knew of them or not, but it's interesting to think of the word Jedi being there in lots of places since ancient times.

There's another *possible* source - the Hebrew word "Yediah", which means "knowledge". [unchecked, but is many times on google]

Omhu Cuspor wrote: I'm finding some interesting references to the idea that a name like " D'Jedi " was in fact an Egyptian label...it strikes me as entirely possible, even likely, that our modern term "Jedi" stems from multiple sources - Japanese, Egyptian, and maybe even others.

In regards to Lucas, it strictly comes from jidaigeki, a genre of film that influenced Star Wars heavily, from C-3P0 & R2-D2 to the screen-wipe transitions (both courtesy of the Kurosawa film The Hidden Fortress) to the near-kamishimo worn by Jedi, and the kabuto-esque styling of Vader's helmet. The saber techniques, the spiritual mumbo-jumbo, the whole thing smacks of Japanese influence.

Any additional, similar, or sketchy associations or assumptions or guesses or wishes we make in this thread are merely coincidental.

@steamboat28 - let us dream of the word Jedi coming from every language on this planet )

Sure, I, too, think jidaigeki is the only source - statement by Lucas is clear.

Omhu Cuspor wrote: -- IMHO aspects of the Force have a way of re-emerging after times when the customs of culture and language seem to have extinguished them.

One reference to an Egyptian source is at http://marahouseluxor.com/gifts-egypt/symbols-of-egypt/raising-the-djed/ . A short excerpt, written by a native of Luxor and with interesting correspondences to the functions of the Jedi as we understand them, reads thusly:

The “Djedi” were the “stable ones”–wisdom keepers of one mind and one spirit...

Contemporary Djedi are self-selecting re-generators of cosmos.
They are those who, regardless of race or creed, are awakening to mission in service to the planet and the epochal (emphasis Omhu Cuspor;s)
imperatives of stability, continuity and regeneration. – from “Raising of the Djed” by Moira Timms


Another online source for this theme is at http://people.tribe.net/chaz/blog/548344ab-9d8a-494f-8b76-35132f024ca2# , which in turn cross-references other sources too numerous for me to pursue at the moment - but this web page does have some interesting content of its own.

I find the fact that in the midst of writing this I synchronistially heard music and dialog from the original Star Wars film playing from my neighbor's home as interesting as quitting time on Friday.

i enjoyed this post