Joseph Campbell is awful
- Lykeios Little Raven
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4 years 3 weeks ago #345452
by Lykeios Little Raven
Replied by Lykeios Little Raven on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
The more I study and learn about other cultures' mythologies the more I find I agree with your analysis.
I used to adore Campbell...now, not so much. You're right. He oversimplifies, makes egregious errors in both thinking and interpretation, and is so vague and general so as to be fairly insulting and dismissive.
That being said... Yea...uhhh, idk how "nuanced" the biblical story of Christ's death and resurrection is. Maybe I'm showing my bias against Christian theology and dogma here, but to me...it seems pretty frigging straightforward with only the details being different. And even IF it is "nuanced" and "subtle" and whatever...so what? The overall story and meaning remains the same. Just my opinion though. I mean, to me...a dying God myth is a dying God myth. Yea, they take on different cultural connotations and interpretations, but I've always found the Christian stories about it to be...clunky, boring, and heavy-handed. (Not trying to offend anyone...just my two cents, feel free to point out why I'm wrong if you like.)
Other than that, though, yea, you're absolutely right. Campbell is pretty awful and basically racist.
I used to adore Campbell...now, not so much. You're right. He oversimplifies, makes egregious errors in both thinking and interpretation, and is so vague and general so as to be fairly insulting and dismissive.
That being said... Yea...uhhh, idk how "nuanced" the biblical story of Christ's death and resurrection is. Maybe I'm showing my bias against Christian theology and dogma here, but to me...it seems pretty frigging straightforward with only the details being different. And even IF it is "nuanced" and "subtle" and whatever...so what? The overall story and meaning remains the same. Just my opinion though. I mean, to me...a dying God myth is a dying God myth. Yea, they take on different cultural connotations and interpretations, but I've always found the Christian stories about it to be...clunky, boring, and heavy-handed. (Not trying to offend anyone...just my two cents, feel free to point out why I'm wrong if you like.)
Other than that, though, yea, you're absolutely right. Campbell is pretty awful and basically racist.
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- Vincent Causse
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2 years 6 months ago #360215
by Vincent Causse
Replied by Vincent Causse on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Oh boy, i m coming into this discutions a few years too late! Personally i was surprised that my way of thinking is so very similar than Joseph Campbell and Alan watts , well i m only at the starts of Alan Watts but the Self and Ego are really an eye opener, i ve been wondering why humans have always failed living on earth (beside some few rare tribes) and what could be some form of solution, seen that not one politic type ever worked. So basically Alan Watts explains the reason pretty well. The truth about the human race is not always pretty and not everyone can take it. We have been told for centuries, that we are the masters of the planet but it s always been a great mistake. Now i admit that some of the thing that those too men explain are a little bit out there for me, my brain has limitations, they are really on a very different level. But right now all i want is finding their books.
We are all the same but different.
May the force be with you
We are all the same but different.
May the force be with you
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2 years 6 months ago #360217
by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
That's why I really like the Avatar movie.
I liked how the Na'vi saw themselves as part of and as children of Eywa ("the guiding force").
Eywa is the guiding force and deity of Pandora and the Na'vi. The Na'vi believe that Eywa acts to keep the ecosystem of Pandora in perfect equilibrium. - https://james-camerons-avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Eywa
The connections to Eywa were physical to some extent, because of the antennae that they could link up, but it was also spiritual because Eywa didn't need to physically connect to the animals.
Humans were the antagonists, an alien force, forcefully occupying Pandora and taking whatever they wanted through military force. And of course, in their minds, was the idea that might=right; that they had a right to take and take and take because they had the means to do so and get away with it.
The natives called them demons and yet they were still willing to befriend and love but only if the humans would learn their ways; not for the sake of coercing some kind of conformity, but to because if they were going to live there they needed to understand the planet and their spiritual connections.
But humans were very immature while at the same time treating anyone without their technology as if they were savages. But lacking in technology, not wearing the same clothes, not having the same traditions, etc. These are not what makes someone a savage. It is a mindset that doesn't care about the cost. The humans weren't even taking life for the sake of survival. They were like a virus. That's how we are when we don't respect nature. We are supposed to be balanced with it. We are supposed to be connected to it. In our ancient rituals, we can see that but we've gotten away from it to the point where think our machines make us superior.
But at the end of the day we're still just biological organisms that resemble the planet we live on: hair, skin, bones, blood vessels, respiration, etc.
The Na'vi never got "too big" in their heads because they all knew that no matter what they accomplished, Eywa was much larger and so they could always keep themselves in perspective. We too... need to keep ourselves in perspective. Having an understanding of the Force can do that for us, just as Eywa did it for the Na'vi.
I liked how the Na'vi saw themselves as part of and as children of Eywa ("the guiding force").
Eywa is the guiding force and deity of Pandora and the Na'vi. The Na'vi believe that Eywa acts to keep the ecosystem of Pandora in perfect equilibrium. - https://james-camerons-avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Eywa
The connections to Eywa were physical to some extent, because of the antennae that they could link up, but it was also spiritual because Eywa didn't need to physically connect to the animals.
Humans were the antagonists, an alien force, forcefully occupying Pandora and taking whatever they wanted through military force. And of course, in their minds, was the idea that might=right; that they had a right to take and take and take because they had the means to do so and get away with it.
The natives called them demons and yet they were still willing to befriend and love but only if the humans would learn their ways; not for the sake of coercing some kind of conformity, but to because if they were going to live there they needed to understand the planet and their spiritual connections.
But humans were very immature while at the same time treating anyone without their technology as if they were savages. But lacking in technology, not wearing the same clothes, not having the same traditions, etc. These are not what makes someone a savage. It is a mindset that doesn't care about the cost. The humans weren't even taking life for the sake of survival. They were like a virus. That's how we are when we don't respect nature. We are supposed to be balanced with it. We are supposed to be connected to it. In our ancient rituals, we can see that but we've gotten away from it to the point where think our machines make us superior.
But at the end of the day we're still just biological organisms that resemble the planet we live on: hair, skin, bones, blood vessels, respiration, etc.
The Na'vi never got "too big" in their heads because they all knew that no matter what they accomplished, Eywa was much larger and so they could always keep themselves in perspective. We too... need to keep ourselves in perspective. Having an understanding of the Force can do that for us, just as Eywa did it for the Na'vi.
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2 years 6 months ago #360219
by Vincent Causse
Replied by Vincent Causse on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Yes to all you said, so it is or the human specie is immature or simply crazy, we are capable do destroy all for the sake of our own expansion, not to call it survival because it is not anymore. We do suffer of some sort of hallucination that make us this way, it creates a riff between us and nature, the ultimate paranoïa! And of course it s friend : denial
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2 years 6 months ago #360220
by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Forgive me for saying this, especially with the timing, but I wouldn't be surprised if pandemics were some kind of way for nature to "fight back" and protect itself from its human population.
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2 years 6 months ago #360228
by Vincent Causse
Replied by Vincent Causse on topic Joseph Campbell is awful
Please dont get me started ! well too late. It is just what you said, in our immense instinct to survive, medicine managed to counter evolution, in the wild an animal that has a birth defect, or some kind of disease, genetic disorder will certainly die and not be able to procreate. But we manage to survive and by pass this, so we re transmitting disease to our children, we survive when we shouldnt and this way our specie has been weakened. Virus like the corona is just an other tool of mother nature to fight back, unconsciously. the huge numbers of humans alone is a weakness as we re more and more likely to meet, catch and transmit nasty disease again.
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