What is it like to feel gender?

Hiya,

This feels more like a debate between two people then a discussion.

In this space, there is to be NO DEBATE. Pursuant to the rules that govern this space. It's clear neither of you will give an inch.

I suggest we move on.

If not, I will be forced to revoke access to IT for a time.

Yes, unfair
Yes, but this is a discussion between two people, Roz.
Yes, all the other things you will say.

The rules say it is not a debate forum.

If you see or feel yourself getting into a debate STOP

Ok?

I will make my decission when I get home from work

Before the thread gets locked id like to reiterate what I have said.
1) i have no idea what to say to women about how they can feel their femininity. I honestly would be pretty interested in hearing the voices of the few women that we have here speaking about what makes them feel feminine. But its not my place to speak on that. I am speaking only to the males. In particular, the young males.
2) if you are a male and you dont know what it feels like to experience your masculinity, do wtf im telling you: learn to fight. Involve yourself in a training regimen and get physically fit. Do something that is dangerous. Go step into something youre not sure you can control. And when you find a girl who likes you dont be a two-pump chump. Give the best of yourself and make sure that she goes first. Dedicate yourself to a skill/ability that takes years to master. Stick with it.

Im not going to argue with anybody about any of this. The question was asked “What is it like to feel gender?” As far as i have noticed, i am the only one who has actually given an answer to that question. I explained the things which resulted in me feeling my own masculinity. You can all be mad at me. IDGAF. Other people may offer other answers. I am not denying the validity of anyone else’s answers. I am simply telling you what has been true in my life. And it is true. There is truth in everything that I have said, whether you like it or not.


DAMN- chiming in on the trans debate, there is no way in hell that a minor should be allowed to have sex/genital changing surgery and hormone “therapy” any more than they should be allowed to have breast implants or to take steroids. Sorry/not sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Hey Ob1 I've been given different info on the last part of your post suggesting that hormone replacement therapy might be lifesaving because when individuals who identify as such are able to see what they identify with actually look back at them in the mirror it helps.

Disclaimer, I don't identify as trans and I will defer to someone who does if I've got the info incorrect.

https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/many-transgender-kids-grow-stay-trans-50499

Adults have every right to do whatever they want with and to their bodies but lets not pretend that children are not children. Hormone therapy is a big deal. As a parent, you can love a trans child and be supportive of them even if you dont allow them to pump themselves full of hormones which change them, irrevocably.

I see your research article and add another:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/23/pubertysuppression012320

Now on the grounds of your comment would you prevent teenagers access to contraceptives?

The "pill" is a hormone pill

OB1Shinobi wrote: DAMN- chiming in on the trans debate, there is no way in hell that a minor should be allowed to have sex/genital changing surgery and hormone “therapy” any more than they should be allowed to have breast implants or to take steroids. Sorry/not sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Hey you trying to get it locked or something!!? :huh: :pinch:

Yea, it wasn't really a trans discussion so it might not be a good idea to go there!! As you pointed out the OP was about gender, which includes transgender but is not limited to it. Anyway, I mean the summation of the OP's questions was "So is gender a feeling, rather than a thought or an action? If it is a feeling, how does it feel?". I think I did try to answer it, as my approach was along the lines of: given topic of feeling gender, what are potential mechanisms of ‘feeling’ gender in my opinion from my experience -> can this enable an experience of gender fluidity -> can other genders therefore be felt as a result of those mechanisms => potential wider exploration and appreciation of the topic. Unfortunately the most powerful ones in my experience have some relationship to sex, but interestingly not necessarily the sex your born with - which made me wonder about more subtle psychological constructs which in turn might indeed be more about society than physiology! Which is why its an interesting topic, it sorta straddles that space between science, psychology and society.

Ah, Ob1

The end of your article is as such "Importantly, these results should not be exaggerated in the other direction either: The correct answer is neither 0% nor 100%. Although the majority of transgender kids desist, it is not a large majority. A very substantial proportion do indeed want to transition as they get older, and we need to ensure they receive the support they will need. Despite loud, confident protestations of extremists, the science shows very clearly and very consistently that we cannot take either outcome for granted."

Given your article states as such, perhaps we should take the approach that non-trans* individuals will never understand the experience of a trans* individual. We should therefore not deprive individuals of access because of our beliefs. I speak in a general sense here.

In a similar vein, I have very strong opinions about abortion. My opinions mean only that I will not get an abortion, not that I can nor should deprive others of the right.

Rosalyn J wrote: I see your research article and add another:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/23/pubertysuppression012320

Now on the grounds of your comment would you prevent teenagers access to contraceptives?

The "pill" is a hormone pill

This was an interesting read. I have to point out a couple of things. First, this article is based on one single study. One. Next, there is nothing in here about hormonal transition, this study was focused on “blocking puberty”. Ive known several people both male and female who would have benefited by having their puberty slowed down. I imagine that this even more applicable for trans children, needing more time to figure out who they are.

Lastly: “Those getting the treatment were more likely to....have a higher household income and have greater family support compared to those who wanted it but did not receive it.”

This rather confounds the study, doesnt jt? Was the puberty-blocker the important part, or was it that these particular kids came from families where they were they were loved and accepted?


As for your question about contraception. Somewhat tricky but not very much because there is no comparison here. Medical contraceptives (as opposed to material contraceptives, such as condoms) do result in hormonal changes but theyre not meant to permanent changes. If you think about it theyre actually meant to keep you the way that you are: not pregnant. Some people grow up way too fast and contraceptives save/protect them from the results of their bad decisions. Gender reassignment therapy is permanent. If your boy wants to wear dresses or your daughter wants to play with pistols and swords, great, let them do that. Love your children as they are. When we’re talking about irreversible hormonal interventions? Research shows that a lot of children grow out of the way that they feel about themselves while they are children.. Its ok if they dont but hey, maybe let them grow up a little bit, first? They can choose for themselves when they become an adult.

I think your opinion is based on a majority narrative which doesn't help individuals who exist as minorities.

I'm going to bring up your study again in that it stated
"A very substantial proportion do indeed want to transition as they get older, and we need to ensure they receive the support they will need."

Support they will need is of course based on the individual. Some will need hormones as a part of their support

My point still stands. I wouldn't deprive them access based on my beliefs.I only own my own body

Having said that, I feel really uncomfortable discussing this issue in such an objective way, As I said, I will never understand what it is like to be an individual in the trans* community. I consider it tantamount to an individual discussing gay conversion therapy, which I do not agree with as a Lesbian.

I'm going to go ahead and stop on that point.

Just know if you are out there and you identify as trans that I support you. That I am learning as much as I can in order to be a better ally. I hope you know that I am here for you

This topic has made me very curious as to how to increase my femininity, so I looked up youtube videos and I found some interesting tips:

I could do my hair (in a feminine style)

I could wear perfume

I could put on lotion

I could spend more time with women

I could write affirming notes (though I think that could be said for all genders)