I Am

Streen wrote: The responses you've all given are much appreciated.

What seems to be a common belief amongst most of you is the idea of a "doctrine". This is part of the problem. The TOTJO doctrine is even more fictional than the original beliefs expressed in the Star Wars movies. What is more frustrating is that every Jedi site seems to have their own doctrine. So, which do you follow? Which one is right? These questions are rhetorical, just things you might want to ask yourselves.

Don't allow yourself to be indoctrinated. Go back to the source. That's where the answers lie.

(None of this is meant to imply any of you don't already know these things, but this message is more for those who don't)

You're getting warmer!

My approach to the Force is a little more mystical than Star Wars ever got around to. The contemplations that have led there have distilled this Jedi's perspective into some pretty fine "goo" making it so that I am quite dependent on the most trusted "prickles" to let me be cogent at all ...

That said, it surprises me, Streen, that you would bring up the topic at all. You've been around the community for quite enough time - with considerable involvement also - to know quite well that the Jedi confession as is practised in the TotJO is certainly not dogmatic, prescriptive spirituality. It is a rigorous self-exploration involving accidental adventures, climbing and falling and climbing again, failures, forgetting, remembering .... and so forth. Where the hell do you see a light-sabre in any of that ?

Our IP is comparative mythology and perspective shifting, with a little self-discovery and expression thrown in (because in our post-modern social organisation many people don't know what they think) ; our apprenticeships are accompanied explorations of that phenomenological terrain discovered thereby ... Why would anyone be trying to develop psy "powers" ? Certainly when many of the mystics up through the ages have cautioned against such delirium ?

You are certainly right to caution anyone thinking that they can become the very likeness of Yoda by signing up to any of the Jedi sites that they may need a consultation (either the psychologist or the dermatologist - whichever). But as to the supportive community for getting out of the post-modern mentality box ("I must obey my master $£€"), we're a pretty good company to be in. Many of the Jedi communities are ....

I'm the Pastor of this church. I have never read even one of the Star Wars Extended Universe books. Not ever. It would be difficult for me to maintain my position here if Star Wars were truly "canon". Hell, the materials in the IP aren't even "canon". The Jedi way is unique for the individual taking her/his steps toward knowing what her/his own life is really about. That is about it. It involves much more authentic feeling, expression and mistake-making than could ever be accounted for in the whole corpus of human literature. Stories only help to understand, but they are not the pre-recording of anyone's life. That is its own experience in its own time.

So, whether you want to call yourself a Jedi any more or not, you are still alive, here & now, and are very welcome to explore what it is to be a human being in a vibrant and ever-changing, ever-evolving world with us .... even reading a Star Wars book, if you like. That is more what we're doing, and honestly, it seems we're doing it sort of well.

@Streen

I personally know 2 people who went a little nuts because of Christianity. One of them tried to "indoctrinate" me - my head even started to ache. There are psychopathic users of traditional religions as well as psychopathic users of alternative ones. And normal people also exist in both. Sometimes it depends on a person, not on a sect or denomination.

Perhaps, part of your confusion may come not from here.

As of Jediism, the only thing that's "wrong" with it, IMO, is that it's young. I sincerely hope it will grow up and not lose it's dedication to knight values.

I'm writing this without reading any of the other replies beforehand.

I approach life from a scientific perspective. I believe in emergent properties as it relates to complex systems theory. Consciousness, for example, is an emergent property of the functioning of our brains/bodies, as is emotion. All that emerges out of an increasingly complex system has a substance that can be described or experienced: atoms beget molecules beget molecular frameworks beget organelles beget cells beget tissues beget body, etc. etc. We are fundamentally composed of subatomic particles which are fundamentally composed of specific quantum excitations of the Higgs field (to be very simplistic about it).

What, then, is the substance of emotion and thought and life energy? I believe this to be the Force. I do not worship anything, nor have delusions of manipulating this Force in any way other than manipulating my self (directed thought, emotional control, healthy body, etc.).

I joined this community for the same reason anyone joins a religious community. People join to connect with others, to share a part of themselves and to contribute, to share and explore a belief, and to have a chance to grow. I missed my old Christian religious community but, as an atheist, could no longer be a part of that. This community welcomes my beliefs and provides those things.

I am very glad that you posed this question! It's quite valid and provokes excellent thought!

The reason I joined TOTJO
Even if i was to not acknowledge The Force, If I put the 16 teachings, 21 maxims into practice...I would be building myself into a person i can be proud of.

In my mind, if Jediism had no name. Think of how beautiful a person would be if they just innately applied the same principles to their own life. If a person realized that they shared a common bond with another person that runs deeper than what they can physically touch or see, imagine how they would treat that person. Imagine how life would be if the persons lived a lifestyle that was so noticeable that who ever the person interacted with knew that the person meant them on ill or even required no action or involvement in order to give respect. You can even look at Jediism as a symbol that represents a body of people that are committed to being an "instrument of Peace"

To me, Jediism is the aforementioned paragraphs. It's a commitment to myself that encourages me to not be ashamed of the need to seek my own spiritual understanding. It inspires me to be tolerate of other peoples shortcomings and aware of my own. It challenges me to always be in a state of growth and reminds me I have the courage to walk in my path of truth as it is revealed to me. For me the difference TOTJO had was not the teaching about the force...but, the principles that they promote. Don't let the title of The Force distract you from the life changing principles. Call it anything you want...But here...We call it the Force.

Hi,
I'm new to this site, but I've been around Jedi sites and a follower of Streen for many years. In a way I'm surprised to see Streen say all this, but in a way not because he never fails to surprise.

Streen - I understand your thought process, and a lot of what you say makes sense if a person thinks of the force as being something totally different than what we have in our world. Personally, I think of the force as being more or less the Holy Spirit or Holy Spirit Power, so to me there is no conflict. It's just calling God by another name and God has had many names. Whatever you do, you have my blessing, but I will always think of you as my Jedi mentor. Please don't become a stranger.

Everyone - He'll be back. Just wait.

Streen wrote: But who are we? What right do we have as a people to call ourselves by a name that we cannot possibly hope to live up to? What we can do is be good people, certainly. Spread light in our lives. Be kind to those around us. That's what the world needs.

I think its's even better to ask... "Who are you" Who is Streen? To say that one can't live (or even) hope to live up to a teaching that is practical and done by people on a daily basis is short sighted and possibly speaks only to your effort. With that point of view there is no one around that can even be considered "good people" (as you say we should be) and no one qualified to "Spread Light...".

I would encourage you to interact more with the site, and you will come across plenty of people that are "good" representives of Jedi. It may even be you.

Streen wrote: The responses you've all given are much appreciated.

What seems to be a common belief amongst most of you is the idea of a "doctrine". This is part of the problem. The TOTJO doctrine is even more fictional than the original beliefs expressed in the Star Wars movies. What is more frustrating is that every Jedi site seems to have their own doctrine. So, which do you follow? Which one is right? These questions are rhetorical, just things you might want to ask yourselves.

Don't allow yourself to be indoctrinated. Go back to the source. That's where the answers lie.

(None of this is meant to imply any of you don't already know these things, but this message is more for those who don't)

Curiously, have you posted this at the other sites you frequent?

Look bud, as Proteus is subtly saying, you are moving through a quagmire of thought, that many of us have been through, or will go through....

I (and many others like Alex in his response here) have said if this place goes 'fiction', we are outta here! We say that, because we have moved past the names and symbolism that man, and ourselves, have placed on things, and are thinking for ourselves...

To talk about a 'thing', we needed a word to start with, "jedi' choose 'force' as our word... Using other words on our journey, Tao, God, Gaia, Goddess, Mother Nature, oneness, source, light... Pick your term....

We laugh when we tell people "well, I am a jedi, cause I believe there is some kind of 'force', some kind of energy, running through the universe, and 'force' is the word I currently use for it..."

Because we know how it sounds....

Someone (and I have said it as well) that we are a loose conglomeration of individuals who think a bit differently from each other, and a lot different from the majority of the planet... At least it would seem that way at times... :lol:...

"indoctrinated" - *snort... lol...

I used to tell people when this was brought up, "we dont tell people WHAT to think, we only ask that they DO think..."

Streen wrote: What seems to be a common belief amongst most of you is the idea of a "doctrine". This is part of the problem. The TOTJO doctrine is even more fictional than the original beliefs expressed in the Star Wars movies.

Hmm, I beg to differ. In the original Star Wars it was implied that the whole Force thing was a religious one, albeit rooted in something actually real within the universe. There is some debate to be had whether either the Force or the Dark Side were a fair interpretation of the underlying spirit of the galaxy and the fact there was a conflict, there was indeed a debate to be had is itself perhaps one of the more profound unspoken messages in Return Of The Jedi. Now, the TOTJO doctrine is crucially different in that it is a religious doctrine for actual people rather than an arguably one-dimensional position on something real within the local universe it is intended for. I am being a little nitpicky here, but I think that the two are a little too grossly dissimilar for comparison. What does it even mean in this context for one of them to be "more fictional" than the other?

What is more frustrating is that every Jedi site seems to have their own doctrine. So, which do you follow? Which one is right? These questions are rhetorical, just things you might want to ask yourselves.

Don't allow yourself to be indoctrinated. Go back to the source. That's where the answers lie.

See, this is what I think a far more crucial problem is. Why does it frustrate you that different groups made up different expressions of what they believe? Rhetorical or not, considering the latest bit of the quoted passage, you seem to expect there being some "the answers" somewhere, and it frustrates you that nothing anybody comes up with gets you any closer to them. But the assumption that they exist or that some positions are closer to them than others are both your own. In the absense of the one true answer it is no great feat to consistently fail at finding it, but the disappointment you feel because of that is completely of your own making. The one ring to rule them all is frankly a fantasy that, with all due respect to Middle Earth, belongs in a simplistic and fantastical world. To look for it out here is, to put it bluntly, a fool's errand. Our lives are far more complicated than that, and far less magical.

Gisteron wrote: hetorical or not, considering the latest bit of the quoted passage, you seem to expect there being some "the answers" somewhere, and it frustrates you that nothing anybody comes up with gets you any closer to them

lol, I always figured that 'the answer', as in the case of my VERY Christian friend, is that which allows you to cope your way through life.....

Then, some of us found we dont have to cope, we just have to accept, and then the pressure for answers is off...