Discussion: TotJO Culture Problems

Manu wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Still has a lot of the same members. Hoping this infusion of new blood gets the heart of TotJO pumping again, but until we see vital signs its too early to call anything...

I have faith in many of those that have recently joined council. But until we see movement, its still a dead heart.

This community is very lively, for a place with a dead heart.

Fun, albeit morbid fact, dead bodies are known to move for a while after death while rigor mortis sets in.

But as I said, I have faith that this injection of new members of the council may be enough to get things going again.

Arisaig wrote: I do hope this is true, because if it is perhaps there is hope of something happening. Until actions meet words however it is just that, words.

Until then, I work towards making this place better with my boots on the ground.

Are you implying that our boots are not on the ground? From the amount of flak we take, it certainly feels like the front lines. Actions are meeting words everyday both inside and outside of Council, but it requires people who are willing to take notice of the work actually being done by everyone. Doing work outside of official channels is fine, but it doesn’t have greater value than the work being done within. We’re all trying to make things better in the ways that we can, and everyone is the heart of this Temple. If anything, it is this “us versus them” mentality that is a culture problem here.

Senan wrote:

Arisaig wrote: I do hope this is true, because if it is perhaps there is hope of something happening. Until actions meet words however it is just that, words.

Until then, I work towards making this place better with my boots on the ground.

Are you implying that our boots are not on the ground? From the amount of flak we take, it certainly feels like the front lines. Actions are meeting words everyday both inside and outside of Council, but it requires people who are willing to take notice of the work actually being done by everyone. Doing work outside of official channels is fine, but it doesn’t have greater value than the work being done within. We’re all trying to make things better in the ways that we can, and everyone is the heart of this Temple. If anything, it is this “us versus them” mentality that is a culture problem here.

I did not imply that your boots are not on the ground, brother. I know many (mostly the newer members) of the council still know what its like to see nothing done after much debate. I'm hoping that desire to be better plays over and we see change. It has, however, only been two days. I don't expect much to have happened in that time, nor did I expect anything to happen so quickly. I am patient.

EDIT: there is a reason you and the other former members of the advisory were voted in. Because you had thick layers of mud on your boots. I hope to see you continue to bring the fight to the trenches.

Ok, I am going to try to not take what was said personally and get all snippy. But considering this place takes up three hours of my day every day and its the first thing I do in the morning and just about the last thing I do before bed its hard not to. The us vs them is a very big issue. To hear myself as part of the council called a dead heart considering the amount of effort and work I put in is not exactly pleasant.

Why are things done slowly? Because I have one group that wants harsher rules for treating people badly, I have another that want clear rules that allow maximum freedom of discussion, then there is always a third group that will not like any changes. THEN there is my opinions and the views of the rest of the Council. And that is just to get it written. From there I have to make sure that anything that gets passed not only suits the culture and membership of the Temple but I have to make it work so that people are not unfairly treated by rules that are too rigid or allowed to run roughshod over others due to rules that are too lax.

Then we need time to debate it. To make sure that all sides are heard and to consider its impact on people. Despite what you think the Council is not of one mind on things. In fact, I have argued rather heatedly with people at times. I just do not do it via public channels even in council because I keep that stuff away from the public eye.
Finally in the midst of all my duties here I have my Apprentices to think of, I have my own training to do, I want to add training material for people to use, oh and it would be nice to be able to socialize without an argument at some point.

The fact is I am guilty of treating those doing the work poorly as an Apprentice. The second I got out a shovel and started working myself to fix things I realized its slow for a reason. I can only say we are hearing you and working on it. But there are a lot of voices and not everyone wants the same thing. So we have to try to mesh it all as best we can while considering if it will be useful and sensibly done

*sigh* Assuming makes an... well, we all know how this goes.

We all know of what I speak. It has been a long dead heart, but new life is being breathed into it. This is what happens when thrones become too comfy, people don't want to leave their seats. Now that we have new blood in the mix, I'm sure that will change.

To be fair, I've been told "we're working on it" for nearly 6 years, and we still have the same problems. You can't really blame people for getting frustrated at hearing it.

I know we've all heard this same song before. It's the whole reason we're at this point in the conversation. "Things will change" Leadership says. And they never seem to on a permanent basis.

I can't tell you not to keep this line going like the chorus of "this is the song that never ends" because of the experience we've had here for years. And the one thing that can smooth your feathers at this point in time is the one thing we've lost. Trust.

Trust is going to take time and effort from both sides to rebuild. Trust is a community effort. We as leaders need to prove ourselves worthy of your trust, but we also rely on you to communicate with us and keep us accountable.

All I can say at this moment is I hear you. I've felt it too. I almost left the temple several times over the feeling that nothing will change. I'm going to fight to make this the temple we're dreaming of but I need your help. Be patient with me, with all of us. But also keep me accountable. If you find I'm doing something in an official capacity as a Councillor, shoot even as Knight or Jedi, official or not, that you feel goes against the spirit of things here, open up a dialog, public or private. I promise I will listen. I may not always agree and there may be things that keep me from making you happy, but I will at least explain myself and do my best to allay your fears.

Many of you have known me for a while now. You've seen me struggle, you've seen me make mistakes. If you haven't I promise they're around I have had the chance to earn the personal trust and respect from some of you. Give me the chance I need to earn that trust as a leader. I have a lot of experience in the military and done a lot of learning on leadership, but my practical experience isn't nearly as vast as my theory. I know I'll make mistakes but I can't learn from them without your help.

You are important to me. This Temple is important to me. So in turn, being the best leader I can be for you is important to me.

Please, help me to grow as we all work to make this Temple grow.

Atticus wrote:

Stephen wrote: A suggestion..
There is a contact clergy button for religious matters.
Why don't we put a contact a mediator for disputes or perceived insults.
That way instead of people responding emotionally, they can get someone to look at it without bias.
It will stop things from escalating and calm can replace anger.
This seems better than laying down the law.

TBH, I've started thinking that when you contact the Clergy, you maybe should get a mediator when the situation warrants.

The form can be updated and changed to "Contact us" and a representative from clergy, mods, council, can respond accordingly. Would that be useful?

Also, I like the idea of the "mediator". I am talking about it with Synod now

Fellow Jedi,
In the very short time I've been part of the TotJO, I have seen an us and them mentality.
I don't understand it, we are all Jedi after all.
It could be that I haven't been here long enough to be drawn in to it.
Surely, that brings a new perspective or one that's been forgotten.
The problem as I see it..
The Council try to implement change but it takes time
The Jedi ranks want to see it happen or know something is really being done.
The Councils reassurances are doubted due to past experience.
Why not make a Knight ( someone not on the council ) a representative of the Jedi not in office.
Let the representative see what is going on behind the curtain. So that he/she can inform everyone that promises are being honoured.
But, the representative position would have to be chosen by the members and the council could not have any say on the person selected.
The council would have to work with them.
I think it would help regain the trust.
Then again I am new here and still have much to learn...