Profiles - Gender

Sex=frequently?

Also, I still haven't identified as either male or female on the forums, even before this nonsense. Personally, I'm not bothered either way, but I know there may be some who are. I would go with a fill in the blank option if that will make people happy.

Also, a lot of people refer to me as sir, especially if I use my other name on forums. It hasn't happened here because I think my name is a pretty good identifier. Some people call ma Master (which I am a little concerned about unless they are my apprentice) but I think the term "Jedi" can work just as well

Jestor wrote: An idea was brought forth, and its playing out....

It's not entirely clear to me what interest is served by this change. To leave it as it was seemed harmless. If there was a danger, I'm interesting understanding it.

To change it, to brush off issues of identity and respect, does strike me as overtly harmful. I am a male. I use traditional male pronouns, so perhaps I am not directly affected by this. That said, the world is much grander than my specific set of concerns. It would be terribly arrogant of me to behave as if only my concerns were valid. Blazingly pretentious if I were to hide that all behind Jedi objectivity, but whatever.

1. If an idea was put forth, what was that idea? What was the compelling reason for it?
2. If that idea was acted on without Council approval (which has been suggested, though not substantiated), that strikes me as a problem all its own. Was this the case?

I would appreciate someone from the council addressing these two questions. Thank you.

Avalonslight wrote:

Does it and should it though?

Yes it does and yes it should, if purely out of respect for that individual, but I'm not going to get into that with you.

(and also my last bit of input here before the thread derails further..)

No, it shouldn't. read the doctrine.

There is nothing in the doctrine which dictates that biological sex is more important than gender identification.

I'm seeing now why there are some individuals on the site who feel like who they are as an individual is attacked or ignored... Excuse me for trying to explain it and build inclusiveness (cause it's not like it wasn't pointed out that that's a central foundation of the site anyway...)

Way to spin things around.

The doctrine specifically says that society should not discriminate on the basis of gender. behaving differently towards people on the basis of their gender is discrimination.

I'm seeing now why there are some individuals on the site who feel like who they are as an individual is attacked or ignored... Excuse me for trying to explain it and build inclusiveness (cause it's not like it wasn't pointed out that that's a central foundation of the site anyway...)

Those individuals should learn to control their silly feelings, because this is a jedi community, not an emo community.

If those individuals do not satisfactorily feel included when offered an option of sex:male,female,neither, which covers 100% of all known life forms, matter and energy in the universe, I doubt they will ever satisfactorily feel included anywhere in our universe, and especially not within totjo.

It's (typically speaking) very easy to update drop downs to add more options or change them to text box options all together.

In our case we have to go from a 2 bit integer to a string, so it's a pain.

Gender is silly. To many non-english speakers it's a useless attribute all nouns have, not something that gets associated with people. Got rid of it as soon as I realised I could.

simply remove the option,period...

If "sex" is not seen as useful (as someone else pointed out, we can just figure it out in a conversation), I'm all for removing it.

I'm a Two-Spirit to use the Native American Indian term being that I have equal amounts of female and male energies within me.
Yes, I was born a female. Yes, I use female terms (she, her, hers). No, I'm not bothered if someone talks to me and uses the male pronouns (he, him, his) or refers about me using such.

The above is an example of three different bases. The first is concerned with what parts I'm born with. The second is what I think of myself as. The third is what I'm okay with others thinking of me as.

I include my own thoughts below.

In regards to the issue of gender: Some people may feel uncomfortable when talked to or about as one when they feel like they are the other, even though they were born as the first. Others identify as both and it might not matter. Still more consider themselves to be no gender at all and are uncomfortable or not in regards to terms of address and may or may not prefer they, them, their, theirs.

It is no easy matter. Whatever one thinks of this life, one experiences it in myriad ways. Not just through sight, touch, taste, sound, smell. There is [to me] to be two types of feeling. That which is emotive, and that which is physical. Again, it seems to me, to be a matter of balance between the different levels of sensory modalities (temperature, balance, pain, internal, hunger, time, and more) different levels of what one's function is (family, social, professional/scholastically, etc) and different "worlds'--though that particular term might not be the correct one for what I mean here (spiritual, physical, emotional, intellectual, etc, etc, etc. (It could go on forever)).

If two people were to go through the same situation, they would have different experiences and would react differently.
If one person were to go through the same situation with different outlooks on life or thought patterns, they would have different experiences and would react differently.

Blessed Keep, and May the Force Be With You.

ren wrote:

It's (typically speaking) very easy to update drop downs to add more options or change them to text box options all together.

In our case we have to go from a 2 bit integer to a string, so it's a pain.

Gender is silly. To many non-english speakers it's a useless attribute all nouns have, not something that gets associated with people. Got rid of it as soon as I realised I could.

You're ignoring the fact that sex and gender are completely different from one another. One is a biological fact. The other is a social construct and personal form of identification. You don't have the right to tell someone else their personal forms of identification are "silly" simply because it doesn't fit with your worldview.

Further, I would argue that a site manager ought to be able to handle changing drop down menus to text boxes or adding additional options to existing drop downs (which you've already done).... That's part of your job description. But even if you can't do that for whatever reason, there was absolutely no reason for you to go and change "gender" to "sex" knowing that the two are completely different constructs and that they work in day to day life differently, even if you don't happen to agree with it. That's not really your choice to make.

Avalonslight wrote:

ren wrote:

It's (typically speaking) very easy to update drop downs to add more options or change them to text box options all together.

In our case we have to go from a 2 bit integer to a string, so it's a pain.

Gender is silly. To many non-english speakers it's a useless attribute all nouns have, not something that gets associated with people. Got rid of it as soon as I realised I could.

You're ignoring the fact that sex and gender are completely different from one another. One is a biological fact. The other is a social construct and personal form of identification. You don't have the right to tell someone else their personal forms of identification are "silly" simply because it doesn't fit with your worldview.

Further, I would argue that a site manager ought to be able to handle changing drop down menus to text boxes or adding additional options to existing drop downs (which you've already done).... That's part of your job description. But even if you can't do that for whatever reason, there was absolutely no reason for you to go and change "gender" to "sex" knowing that the two are completely different constructs and that they work in day to day life differently, even if you don't happen to agree with it. That's not really your choice to make.

I know sex and gender are different. Sex is real, gender is BS. I am well aware of that, hence why I made the change. Your need for "gender" to be there is silly.

Adding additional options turned out to be easy. Changing the variable type is not.

ren wrote: I know sex and gender are different. Sex is real, gender is BS. I am well aware of that, hence why I made the change. Your need for "gender" to be there is silly.

And again. You don't get to make that decision for someone else. That's not a right you have. No one has the right to go to another person and tell them part of their identity is "silly". Gender is part of peoples' identities, part of who they are. No one has the right to tell someone else that that's wrong or silly... Not when it's so integral to who a person is and how they relate to the world.

We don't need to know someone's sex on a website. Know their gender is part of knowing their identity and being respectful to them. A point you seem to keep ignoring.

And if you've been paying attention, almost everyone who's spoken on the matter has said gender is more appropriate than sex for what we use it for on site.

But by all means, do whatever it is you want since that's all that matters to you and there's nothing the rest of us can do on the matter and you've admittedly done so anyway.

Gender is real, if not just because its now recognized in the broader society which we participate and live within.

Personally... I think they are psychological energetic circuits, relating quite distinctly with the spinal alignment, neuromuscular activiation, balance and movement - being that the male tends to a crouched manner ready to spring while the feminine is more a balanced coiled upright arrangement, ready to unwind... all crouched tiger and hidden dragon like
:lol:
But that these only got associated to sex because of the anatomical peculiarities of posture and therefore movement - being its trickier for a male to stand balanced with his package downstairs hanging out front and shoulders larger then hips, plus sitting upright is difficult with the package in the way - while female anatomy with the wider hips and smaller shoulders and balance between larger butt out back and breasts out front provide a more balanced upright posture, additionally allowing upright sitting. Creating these two distinct setups, but setups otherwise not limited to sex, beyond that social norm and anatomical disposition. Just my opinion from reading too much Asian spiritual stuff and being too open minded.
:silly:
The rest of gender then is just cultural I guess, but how people define themselves is important to relating to them.

frankly I'm tired of seeing so much debate for something like this. are five discussion pages in less than an hour. why not post on their training this so intensely. and something else, the person who started this topic is really worried about this subject or simply made for lack of anything better to do? so I ask myself and honestly, we have more important things to do

Okay, this got carried away.

I have not read the 4 PAGES of what I am sure is brilliant debate on this -


I don't believe the question was about Gender in a broad sense, so much as "Can we have a Third option on the drop down list that is not M or F" - Seems like more a technical "site set up capability" question than a "How do you feel about non-binary genders" question.

That was done, so I would think the problem was solved?


But, I'm never one to deprive someone of an opportunity to jam their agendas into any given conversation