Taking Part in the Process...As an experienced Jedi

Aqua wrote: Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body.

I have a real problem at portraying my intentions. Often times they get viewed as a negative instead of a positive or just thinking. Used to be I wouldn't use smilies....people suggested that I try it. So I did....now people tell me I use them too much and it makes my posts appear smug and conceded....

In the end there is no pleasing people haha :laugh: I would hope that, as Jedi, we would infer the posative in peoples textual words and not the negative.....not so simple though.

Text is a mixed bag. But so is real life....I am alot more shy and inwards in real life and have just as much an issue portraying my thoughts in real life as I do in text.

Streen's post for example....I did not take it as a "Let me skip ahead and be viewed as a Master"

I took it as "Where do I begin?"

Just because he's been around TOTJO off and on dosn't mean he really focused on the process of things.

I could be wrong. But it shows how text can be interpreted on two completely separate ends of the scale

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Aqua wrote: Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body.

I have a real problem at portraying my intentions. Often times they get viewed as a negative instead of a positive or just thinking. Used to be I wouldn't use smilies....people suggested that I try it. So I did....now people tell me I use them too much and it makes my posts appear smug and conceded....

In the end there is no pleasing people haha :laugh: I would hope that, as Jedi, we would infer the posative in peoples textual words and not the negative.....not so simple though.

Text is a mixed bag. But so is real life....I am alot more shy and inwards in real life and have just as much an issue portraying my thoughts in real life as I do in text.

Streen's post for example....I did not take it as a "Let me skip ahead and be viewed as a Master"

I took it as "Where do I begin?"

Just because he's been around TOTJO off and on dosn't mean he really focused on the process of things.

I could be wrong. But it shows how text can be interpreted on two completely separate ends of the scale

If you see your quote, I have highlighted some things that draw my attention.

You are viewed as negative, and positive at the same time by different people. I do not know how shy you are, but if you like using smileys, you should do it. If you do not like using smileys, you should not do it.
In the end, it all depends what you would like to do. I myself can not please every person, even if I would.. I do care what people think, I do care what people think of me.. But if I would not feel comfortable with it myself, I would not do it.
I would support you whatever side you would choose in displaying your text, with or without smileys. Please, just make sure you feel comfortable with it. It would make me feel comfortable too

Aqua wrote:

Kitsu Tails wrote:

Aqua wrote: Oo.. .. Body language is lost indeed.. We do have smileys at the forum, but they do not work as fine as a body.

I have a real problem at portraying my intentions. Often times they get viewed as a negative instead of a positive or just thinking. Used to be I wouldn't use smilies....people suggested that I try it. So I did....now people tell me I use them too much and it makes my posts appear smug and conceded....

In the end there is no pleasing people haha :laugh: I would hope that, as Jedi, we would infer the posative in peoples textual words and not the negative.....not so simple though.

Text is a mixed bag. But so is real life....I am alot more shy and inwards in real life and have just as much an issue portraying my thoughts in real life as I do in text.

Streen's post for example....I did not take it as a "Let me skip ahead and be viewed as a Master"

I took it as "Where do I begin?"

Just because he's been around TOTJO off and on dosn't mean he really focused on the process of things.

I could be wrong. But it shows how text can be interpreted on two completely separate ends of the scale

If you see your quote, I have highlighted some things that draw my attention.

You are viewed as negative, and positive at the same time by different people. I do not know how shy you are, but if you like using smileys, you should do it. If you do not like using smileys, you should not do it.
In the end, it all depends what you would like to do. I myself can not please every person, even if I would.. I do care what people think, I do care what people think of me.. But if I would not feel comfortable with it myself, I would not do it.
I would support you whatever side you would choose in displaying your text, with or without smileys. Please, just make sure you feel comfortable with it. It would make me feel comfortable too

I had no idea that my post would generate such reactions, but let me clarify some things...

I'm not asking to be made a Master. Personally I don't believe in "Jedi Masters". "Mentor" would be a better word, but I don't expect to be labeled as such officially here without doing some work. My main question was simply, "How much work do I have to do to get there?" It's been suggested to me by a certain member that I could try starting from the very beginning, but the thought of that honestly makes me feel weary. It's not laziness. People who might imply that it is don't know what I've been through or what I've seen and experienced over the past 20 years.

What I'd like to do is prove that I am capable of much more than being an apprentice. It's a little hard to claim that title while at the same time mentoring someone (yes, I currently have a student at Jediism Way). I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

If not, oh well. I'll go on teaching as I always have. I'm not saying all this for my own benefit anyway. I want to help. That's all.

I can not speak what the temple will do, it would be out of my place to be honest. If you truly want, you can finish IP within a day, you could be initiate within 60 days, and become a knight within 8 months as minimum If I do understand it correctly. Though I would not advise you to do it, the temple does have room to grand you knighthood within 10 months.

But I would like to ask you this, would it make you feel better? Would a apprentice feel better if he/ she would hear that you did finish it so quick? Can a apprentice feel comfortable around you then? And would you feel the responsibility if something would go wrong due it?

As I did asked before, do you have prove of your experience in 20 years? I think that I did not ask the correct question. I want to say sorry towards you for asking. I would like to mention that experience in years do not matter. What you did within the years does.

Hope that you will realize that the temple has requirements. These requirements are to safeguard the transfer of knowledge that is thought within the temple. Your knowledge might be there, but it is not controlled by the temple in any way. If I come towards the point of becoming apprentice, I will not choose a training master that uses knowledge that is taught outside the temple. I would have to redo my training if I would discover it. I can not take that risk.

I believe that the temple does not have rules to bully you in any way dearest experienced Jedi Streen, but safeguarding the transfer of knowledge allowed by the temple should be high on your list. I would recommend you to take the long path, even if you were allowed to have a title of Knighthood, very quick, it would be most likely that you would have not many apprentices because they would not trust it. At least, that is a possibility. I would not say some would not choose you because of it. It would be highly possible that it would happen.
If it would happen, and you would not have many apprentices, you would have not have your ultimate dream of mentor? Would that be worth it if you like teaching other people? Though you could go for one. But I guess you want a lot of apprentices. (guessing) I do not believe that it is worth it. Just my humble novice opinion.. Mind about it, and continue your way to what ever result it may bring you.



~ Aqua

Streen wrote: I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

The issue is that once you make that allowance for one, it opens doors that may be difficult to close.

I can see where he is going though, picture high school going on to college. At some point you have to take an assessment test to see I'd you retained your knowledge from high school..if you tested at a college trigonometry level for example you don't have to take that class again you can just choose to proceed. If there was something like that, an application and test followed by an interview and any supporting documents you could possibly do it that way. But coming up with the criteria for the test and all the extra man hours involved in putting all of that together and doing interviews and filtering out applications from just the wanna be knights etc, it would be a huge pain and cause a lot more problems then it would solve.

I do think there is room for a title of someone who has been knighted else where by a respectable community would be of merit. Where it would be obvious they are a knight if a different community but not here, they dont have any extra privileges then a member but it at least shows they are a more honorary guest of the site then just a member for sake of credentials, that would make sense to me anyway.

Tellahane wrote: I do think there is room for a title of someone who has been knighted else where by a respectable community would be of merit.

Yea...there was once. Ambassador roles. Way back in the day I was an Ambassador here at TOTJO. (Edit: I guess I should say...Old Old OLD Totjo haha) I did exactly what I do now....Work on providing history, handling interaction between communities and alerting everyone about new gatherings....now im just an Apprentice here.

I don't think Streen is concerned about Rank though. He is just asking for something to do to help out around here. A Job...not a rank...I was doing the same thing when I first came. I didn't really want to go through the whole "Master/Apprentice" process simply because I've had five Masters in my day and loosely taught many students out of here (they came to me) and other locations. I wanted to help. I didn't want to prove myself. I didn't want to be seen as something greater than everyone else. I just wanted to use the skills i have to help.....Its kind of what I do.

I chose freely to do the IP and go through the Apprentice roles because I have the time to do it. I am a stay at home mom and have left alot of the other community groups and past responsibilities. So...I have the time and I want to participate. Perhaps when/If I become a Knight I could work on something like you suggested Tellahane

However. Regardless...Streen. I could be wrong....but I tend to notice that the best way to help is to simply pick something out that you see needs help with and do it. Submit it for review and Ta Dah! You helped Pick one of the forum sections and start filling it up with topics and facts. I notice there is alot of questions about Meditations, something your good at if I recall Start sharing! Topics around here pop up rather slowly. I am sure they would love the help there.

Or your paintings start making painted portraits with the TOTJO logo and sell them to the temple members - use the money to support their hosting

Streen wrote: I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

If not, oh well. I'll go on teaching as I always have. I'm not saying all this for my own benefit anyway. I want to help. That's all.

I'm becoming more and more proud that they don't bend the rules. I don't see what the big hurry is. You can "teach by example" with or without a title. I've learned from guests here, too. It's just a matter of perspective.

I would think that a place like TOTJO would bend certain rules when there are many people out there who have been Jedi much longer than this site has even existed.

Prove your the type of person someone should bend rules for.

Again, so what that you have been a Jedi longer than this place has been here?

So far, you have posted links to other sites, and on behalf of someone who likened current Jedi groups to Pedophilia. By your own admission, you have not been an ally.

Since the past is so important then, and not the present, what in your past actions here, makes you think you deserve to have the rules bent for you?

More, you have proven they shouldnt be.

However, present actions(what you do now)....Perhaps not unlike Kit has just mentioned....could change that.

Whether or not rank is important, or even the IP,what is the problem with earning your place in some way instead of simply expecting it?

Streen wrote: I'm not asking to be made a Master. Personally I don't believe in "Jedi Masters". "Mentor" would be a better word, but I don't expect to be labeled as such officially here without doing some work. ... If not, oh well. I'll go on teaching as I always have. I'm not saying all this for my own benefit anyway. I want to help. That's all.

My only question is what is it that you would like to do that you can't now? I can understand feeling that people will only take what you have to say seriously if they see a rank bar underneath your avatar, but are those people truly deserving of the wisdom that you would impart? (you could argue that they might be in more need of it) If you wish to help people I say that you can regardless of rank. You can't formally have a student at TOTJO but you can certainly impact the lives of the people here.

That said, I would say to go through the IP. Do it the long way. I plan to go through it all again after my apprenticeship is officially ended. (I say officially because Edan will always be my teacher ) If for no other reason than to see how you might have changed since you last did the same or similar work.

Or your paintings start making painted portraits with the TOTJO logo and sell them to the temple members - use the money to support their hosting

Yes, we do not allow posts for sale for personal profit...

We do not allow posts for fundraisers...

We do not allow ANY pleas for money...

I even do my best to not do it about donations for totjo... From anyone, although I feel a challenge coming up on that, lol...

The reason is, we all have worthy causes to our heart, and we cannot give to them all... So, we ask that none get posted...

I recieve no personal gain (monetary), and br John, receives no personal gain (monetary), we do get the 'job well done, hopefully it is helping someone' satisfaction, and honestly, for me that is enough...

If the founder is not making a profit in any way, why should someone be able to hawk wares for personal profit?

We do have the "Swap Meet" forum, but, it is not for garage sales or auctions...

We also have a TOTJO eBay, in case anyone doesnt know, and Kamizu has donated the last few items up for bid as her way of donating to totjo...

Anyway, just a quick blurb on that... Please copy me and start a new thread if you have other questions...

Tellahane wrote: If there was something like that, an application and test followed by an interview and any supporting documents you could possibly do it that way.

Sure, the hard part of the IP is the watching, listening or reading...

At this point, I could go elsewhere, and write these topics without even re-watching them, and could theoretically do our IP in a day or two without stress, write up my credentials, and submit myself to an interview...

We still have the 60 day thing, but Streen has been a member longer than that, so that doesnt affect him...

Then there is the apprenticeship, yes, this part is tougher to get through, but, it is not the end of the world... I mean, Ive been kind to Kitsu SO far, lol... But, she isnt new either, and right now, we are just chatting, although this is a busy month for me, so not quite as much as I like to talk, I hope to step that up before long,

My son spent a year at a private school, only to transfer to another school, and was told all those hours in the religion classes dont transfer, so the credits dont count... Thats just how life is sometimes... Take what we can, deal with the rest, lol...

At this date, however, we have no procedure (as Alex and some others how I am about protocol... I didnt think C3-Po was my idol, but, it looks more and more like he is, lol...

Kitsu wrote: but I tend to notice that the best way to help is to simply pick something out that you see needs help with and do it. Submit it for review and Ta Dah!

Typically, we do ask for our Knights to be in areas of responsibility, but, that has been bent by the dedication others have shown... Recently, Jedi_Roz was ask to run the eBay, and she was an apprentice.... Edan was ask to be the Youth Officer as an apprentice.... Plokoon is working on an offline thing, as an apprentice... tzb helped with the totjo member map as an apprentice...

rugadd put together a small booklet (still waiting on mine brutha! lol) like a pocket totjo book... as a Novice...

And, seriously, lets NOT forget the impact guests like Khaos and Gisteron have... I love these two guys, despite occasional head-bumping... I even find that fun, lol...

Or even Mortose, and Hannigan before their banning...

Everyone has an affect on everything... It is the way of the world...

Watching the few rules/policies we do have, of course...

Kistu wrote: Yea...there was once. Ambassador roles. Way back in the day I was an Ambassador here at TOTJO. (Edit: I guess I should say...Old Old OLD Totjo haha) I did exactly what I do now....Work on providing history, handling interaction between communities and alerting everyone about new gatherings...

We are all ambassadors of ourselves, and antwhere we call home, be it virtual, or physical...

We (Council) did discuss Ambassadors here, and really, saw no need...

I happen to be one at TOTJF, lol...

hiddeninthesnow wrote: I'm becoming more and more proud that they don't bend the rules. I don't see what the big hurry is. You can "teach by example" with or without a title. I've learned from guests here, too. It's just a matter of perspective.

Right...

We have at least two college professors, both seeking their doctorate, and never once have they said anything about their previous training, except in a offhand way... Both are now knights... They did the IP...

Not to mention the scores of college educated people (I am not one, stay in school kids!!) going throgh the same system...

I can see both sides, but, as Edan said earlier:

Edan wrote: The issue is that once you make that allowance for one, it opens doors that may be difficult to close.

And, we are not wanting to open that door...

Jestor wrote: I mean, Ive been kind to Kitsu SO far, lol... [/color]

Shhh!! Don't ruin our reputation of being at eachothers throats! No one must know!

And, seriously, lets NOT forget the impact guests like Khaos and Gisteron have... I love these two guys, despite occasional head-bumping... I even find that fun, lol...

Since this has been brought up.

I have also been around longer than TOTJO, since were throwing that around. Most other places, I lead the various Dark forums in some capacity. Even at other Jedi sights, I am part of councils that make policy. I have irrevocably changed the Dark path to what it is in its current form.

So. What.

None of that matters. It really doesnt. Not here especially at a Jedi site with little regard for the Dark path( in fact, some hold it in disdain and ridicule)I also do not go to new Dark orders and talk about how long I have been on the path and that I should be in some position of higher influence.

I earn my place wherever I go, online or off, with what I like to think is current quality content, and actions.

Keep in mind that there are several areas not available to me simply because I am a guest.

However, I understand that I will not meet certain criteria, and so ,will not be allowed access.

I have no shortage of influence, or a voice here, or do not feel as if I do.

I do moderate myself to a degree, if only so that I can continue to have voice here in some capacity.

I work extremely well within my limitations here. I do not expect rank, favors, or rules to be bent, in fact, I have been temporarily banned no less then three times.

Doesnt matter how long I have been around.

I have received no special privileges, nor do I expect any simply for being around a long time.

Or for past actions that have nothing at all to do with this place, here and now.

I, for one, would find it interesting to see how Jedi who have been along for a long time go through the IP and other training programs here, and how their answers differ from mine. Probably would be beneficial for those of us who haven't been around as long, I would think.

TheDude wrote: I, for one, would find it interesting to see how Jedi who have been along for a long time go through the IP and other training programs here, and how their answers differ from mine. Probably would be beneficial for those of us who haven't been around as long, I would think.

every new perspective is new information to absorb....

RyuJin wrote:

TheDude wrote: I, for one, would find it interesting to see how Jedi who have been along for a long time go through the IP and other training programs here, and how their answers differ from mine. Probably would be beneficial for those of us who haven't been around as long, I would think.

every new perspective is new information to absorb....

Well ya know dude, one must abide... But ryujin and many others could go through the IP and submit corrections, improvements, etc. So really there's no harm in starting over but there is a benefit if one can help to make it better.

I find myself in the same boat where the IP has changed since I began and so I'd need to repeat it all but I know a bunch of stuff now that noobs don't so maybe I can see something they don't and get it fixed or whatever...

Br. John wrote: Someone could graduate from Harvard Law School with Honors. They could practice law for 20 years in New York then serve as a judge on the state supreme court there for 10 years. They decide to move to Texas and want to open a law practice. To get a licence to be a lawyer in Texas they still have to pass the Texas Bar Exam (which unfortunately does not cover how to make a perfect vodka martini).
.

but he doesn't have to go back to law school. Maybe he will have to learn some about Texas laws? He is tested to see if has the knowledge to practice law in Texas basis and to determine if his past experiences and education is adequate. They recognize his past experiences. If he fails he has to study up on his weakness but he doesn't start from scratch.

Rickie wrote:

Br. John wrote: Someone could graduate from Harvard Law School with Honors. They could practice law for 20 years in New York then serve as a judge on the state supreme court there for 10 years. They decide to move to Texas and want to open a law practice. To get a licence to be a lawyer in Texas they still have to pass the Texas Bar Exam (which unfortunately does not cover how to make a perfect vodka martini).
.

but he doesn't have to go back to law school. Maybe he will have to learn some about Texas laws? He is tested to see if has the knowledge to practice law in Texas basis and to determine if his past experiences and education is adequate. They recognize his past experiences. If he fails he has to study up on his weakness but he doesn't start from scratch.

That is not true. All of us in a professional capacity have to continue our education. Even Lawyers/Judges. Yes he would have to test for the Texas Bar but he would still be required to continue his study.

As a College Professor I have to continue my education, I'm currently working towards a Masters and after that a PHD. As part of my Masters in Anthropology I have the opportunity with my father who is a minister to visit the Holy Land. What I can learn by actually visiting those places and bring back to the classroom is vital and required for me to share.

As for here, I support the Rank system in place. I support the education programs. Remember people this whole thing is free. The few of us behind the scenes that help with this are all volunteer. No one is making money here, yes there is always room for improvement, however being a an Educator myself and having gone through the IP and then Apprenticeship I feel was an incredible part of this temple and the dedication of the people in it. Yes its not for everyone and that's okay too.

When I got to meet my teacher face to face and talked we laughed and carried a conversation on for three hours straight with one bathroom break in between. Why? Because we have a shared experience here that we have done together and worked through. We were meeting as equals and that was never more apparent to me than that night. It didn't matter that he was a Knight and I was an Apprentice, we were two Jedi talking about being Jedi and laughing about trivial Jedi things together. I hope that is something we can do again in the future and that I can meet up with a few more folks to giggle about more Jedi things.

Do the program. Earn your place. Or not. That is fine too. If you don't want to climb the ladder that is fine and a lot of great folks contribute at the Member and Guest level. If you go up in rank you get more responsibility, hence the reason for going through our program, so we are all on a level playing field.

All of us in a professional capacity have to continue our education.

Yes we do. No argument there but that was not the point I was attempting to make.

Continued education is not the same starting law school from scratch. In fact I believe anyone can sit for the bar exam? No formal education required? The test determines if one has sufficient knowledge to be a lawler. Please if some one knows better about the bar exam speak up.

This is my point.

Yes he would have to test for the Texas Bar