This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)

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12 years 8 months ago #40133 by
I know that I'm not an experienced member, but I'd like to point out that I myself don't see a need for that. It will probably only cause some minor future problems (like others said: "Why is there no Islamic/Judaism group?") and the people who use this forum know that it's mostly Christian either way. It will close the door for other Abrahamic religions - not forever, of course, but might be some disappointment for new members.

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12 years 8 months ago #40134 by

Randi Oxford wrote: I have met one Muslim Jedi and one Jewish Jedi. To refer to this group as just Christian really does seem to snub the other two groups. If we changed this to "Christian", then why not change the Pagan group to "Wiccan". To do so with the latter would estrange a number of other groups which do not adhere to Wicca (for example, Hinduism).

If the subject was to change both groups from their names to something a bit more broad (Abrahamic becomes Monotheistic and Pagan becomes Polytheistic) then I might be more willing to accept the idea.

This was my thinking as well. I would have agreed to switch to Christian Rite had there been nothing but Christians, but as it was mentioned that there were a small few of the Abrahamic Rite that are not Christian, I am much more wary about it. A minority is still a number. It doesn't seem right that they should be ignored just to make the majority more comfortable (and really, how much of a change in comfort is it anyway? Christianity is an Abrahamic religion).

Plus, there's the issue of how to deal with those who aren't Christian and are looking for a place where they fit (i.e. the hypothetically nonexistent Abrahamic Rite). You can talk about placing disclaimers or answers in the FAQ or waiting for complaints, but that still takes effort on their part, when all they're wanting is to find a place where they can be comfortable, and feel a bit nervous when they can't find it.

Maybe I'm overthinking things in assuming that would be their reactions, I don't know. It just seems like a needless change. And again, .1% may be small, but it's still something worth considering.

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12 years 8 months ago #40136 by Br. John
I'm looking at this from the perspective of mislabeling or false advertising. What's actually in that forum? I'm not finding any Jewish or Muslim discussions but plenty of Christian discussions including prayers and ceremonies for a multitude of occasions.

I frequently eat and get take out from a local Black Eye Pea restaurant. The food is very good and so it the service. Several months ago my mother and I went there and the special was Chicken and Dumplings. We ordered it. What a letdown. It was Chicken Soup with dumplings thrown in. Even Campbell's Soup gets this right. They have a Chicken Soup with Dumplings and then they have Chicken and Dumplings which (I hope) you all know is a rich creamy sauce with plenty of chicken and dumplings made from biscuit batter.

So while I don't know how a Muslim or Jewish person would feel if they go in this forum I do understand the disappointment of expecting something and not getting it.

Nobody's saying we cannot have and add forums labeled Muslim Studies and Jewish Studies.

What I'm saying is that we properly label that forum to reflect what's actually in it.

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12 years 8 months ago #40149 by Alethea Thompson
Then perhaps it would be a good idea for people who are in that forum to help bring about more teachings from the other two systems. Just to help even things out. After all, Christianity sprung forth from Judaism, and Islam sprung from Christianity. It helps bring about a more well rounded view of how the system has evolved in the three systems.

You know, so long as they remain respectful when researching and posting.

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12 years 8 months ago #40152 by Neaj Pa Bol

Br. John wrote: I'm looking at this from the perspective of mislabeling or false advertising. What's actually in that forum? I'm not finding any Jewish or Muslim discussions but plenty of Christian discussions including prayers and ceremonies for a multitude of occasions.

Br. John wrote: So while I don't know how a Muslim or Jewish person would feel if they go in this forum I do understand the disappointment of expecting something and not getting it.

Nobody's saying we cannot have and add forums labeled Muslim Studies and Jewish Studies.

What I'm saying is that we properly label that forum to reflect what's actually in it.


Tho' this was an extra-sensitive subject back in the early days of this church, trying to find a balance at that time was easiest with the Abrahamic rite covering the three main staples of the origin of each. Back in the day the term "Christian" was a distain for some of the members of TOTJO, since they had removed themselves from such a concept or belief, it had come to a margin of agreement to Use the origins name as the base with the branches to cover a vast system of just the Christian branches (i.e; Catholic, Protestant, etc...), but to include the original judaic form and the islamic branch.

So it is still a topic that will bring discussions; and yes the majority of this "old" rite is Christian, we must still find an acceptable way for Jewish or Islamic followers to have their voice, even if it is just a few... We must also remember that the word "Christian" covers a vast network of religious variences over the past 2000 years.

Good, open, respectful discussion is what we need to find a new balance within these forum walls...

Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

Let the improvement of yourself keep you so busy that you have no time to criticize others. Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

Participated in the making of the book, “The Jedi Compass”with 2 articles.

For today I serve so that tomorrow I may serve again. One step, One Vow, One Moment... Too always remember it is not about me... Master Neaj Pa Bol

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Faith is a journey, not a guilt trip...

Quiet your emotions to find inner peace. Learn from ignorance to foster knowledge.
Enjoy your passions but be immersed in serenity. Understand the chaos to see the harmony.
Life and death is to be one with the Force.

Apprentice's: Master Zanthan Storm, Jaxxy (Master Rachat et Espoir (Bridgette Barker))

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12 years 8 months ago #40153 by Br. John
I'd be delighted to see teachings about faiths that we currently lack but I'd hope to see them from current or at least former members of those faiths. Above all are those who embrace Jediism and still hold another faith / tradition. That's how the Rites arose in the first place. It was in recognition of that.

I realize that attaching labels is playing a dangerous game. The only thing worse is having no labels at all; one must open the can to find out what's inside.

TOTJO is not all things to all people. It's easy to forget we have a solid foundation and walls here because we all get along so well.

If anyone feels like we are not exclusive and there's people we would not have (and they'd not have us) read Jedi Believe again.

Can you think of people you know who do not agree with some of those principals? Or, for that matter, very much disagree with some of them? There are so many examples that I'm almost hesitant to give any.

Let's leave the Death Penalty issue out of this. Here's why. What we have are some members who believe they believe in the Death Penalty. Unless one is on a jury or a judge with an actual vote that can sentence someone to death, it's in theory. Unless one is the person pushing the button on the device that will actually kill someone, it's in theory. I don't know what you'd do in that situation and neither do you. You know what you believe you would do.

This is a (Yes / No ) topic. It's for discussion about if we are doing this right. Should it stay the same or change? If it should change then how?

This started with me having an uneasy feeling that over time we've alienated a significant population of our members. I don't know if we have or not.

I and The Council are listening.

I understand that at this point this topic logically leads to others and anyone should feel free to start a topic.

Thank you all for your input so far.

Founder of The Order

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12 years 8 months ago #40154 by

Br. John wrote: I frequently eat and get take out from a local Black Eye Pea restaurant. The food is very good and so it the service. Several months ago my mother and I went there and the special was Chicken and Dumplings. We ordered it. What a letdown. It was Chicken Soup with dumplings thrown in. Even Campbell's Soup gets this right. They have a Chicken Soup with Dumplings and then they have Chicken and Dumplings which (I hope) you all know is a rich creamy sauce with plenty of chicken and dumplings made from biscuit batter.

Except this is more of a "build your own pizza" thing. You're offering pepperoni, sausage, ham, peppers, pineapple, and mushrooms. You're mostly just getting people who want pepperoni and extra cheese, and wondering if you should just change it to "Pepperoni pizza," even though some people will still want the other options. And rather than simply toss out the other recipes, you'll allow them to request the toppings, though they won't be on the menu (or in small font at the bottom they could very well miss), which may lead them to assume they're not available.


Apologies if I am out of place with this thinking, but like Randi Oxford said, it's a bit like changing the Pagan Rite to "Wiccan Rite." It doesn't feel so much like accurate labeling, as it does an exclusion of everyone else. Again, a minority is still a percentage. Even if there are only two or three, they're still worth having a place to discuss things that isn't "The Forum For Those Two Guys."

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12 years 8 months ago - 12 years 8 months ago #40157 by
If I'm being picky (and as Special Advisor for the Pagan Group, I think I can be), the content of the Pagan section is not exclusively Wiccan. In fact, maybe only half of it would be labelled as such. There are lessons from many different paths, all loosely termed as pagan. I myself am Pagan but I'm not Wiccan.

The content of the Abrahamic section is 100% Christian (whatever the denomination) so as Br.John said, why don't we label it as such. I have yet to come across a Jewish or Muslim member at this site, let alone one that has contributed to the forum by posting insights from those perspectives.

If we get any people identifying as Jewish, or Muslim, or Zoroastrian, or whatever and they would like to start a forum to share knowledge and discussions about that faith, then they are free to do so. So if there are any active Jewish or Muslim Jedi here, speak up and tell us if you would like us to not change the name. Otherwise, I say we change the name because the label would then be more accurate.
Last edit: 12 years 8 months ago by . Reason: spelling mistake

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12 years 8 months ago #40171 by ren
We could also merge everything and call it the "Infidels" section.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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12 years 7 months ago - 12 years 7 months ago #40233 by Neaj Pa Bol
As always, we get a little silliness going, but we need to come up with yes, no, pro's and con's. For me it is simple, it would be yes but with understanding if it is not. Even if we keep the term Abrahamic Rite and then sub-catagories such as Christian studies,Judaic Studies, etc. Lets get some ideas going so that the council can decided.

Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

Let the improvement of yourself keep you so busy that you have no time to criticize others. Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

Participated in the making of the book, “The Jedi Compass”with 2 articles.

For today I serve so that tomorrow I may serve again. One step, One Vow, One Moment... Too always remember it is not about me... Master Neaj Pa Bol

Faith is daring the soul to go beyond what the eyes can see...

Faith is a journey, not a guilt trip...

Quiet your emotions to find inner peace. Learn from ignorance to foster knowledge.
Enjoy your passions but be immersed in serenity. Understand the chaos to see the harmony.
Life and death is to be one with the Force.

Apprentice's: Master Zanthan Storm, Jaxxy (Master Rachat et Espoir (Bridgette Barker))
Last edit: 12 years 7 months ago by Neaj Pa Bol. Reason: spelling

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