This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)

More
04 Jul 2011 01:57 #40152 by Neaj Pa Bol

Br. John wrote: I'm looking at this from the perspective of mislabeling or false advertising. What's actually in that forum? I'm not finding any Jewish or Muslim discussions but plenty of Christian discussions including prayers and ceremonies for a multitude of occasions.

Br. John wrote: So while I don't know how a Muslim or Jewish person would feel if they go in this forum I do understand the disappointment of expecting something and not getting it.

Nobody's saying we cannot have and add forums labeled Muslim Studies and Jewish Studies.

What I'm saying is that we properly label that forum to reflect what's actually in it.


Tho' this was an extra-sensitive subject back in the early days of this church, trying to find a balance at that time was easiest with the Abrahamic rite covering the three main staples of the origin of each. Back in the day the term "Christian" was a distain for some of the members of TOTJO, since they had removed themselves from such a concept or belief, it had come to a margin of agreement to Use the origins name as the base with the branches to cover a vast system of just the Christian branches (i.e; Catholic, Protestant, etc...), but to include the original judaic form and the islamic branch.

So it is still a topic that will bring discussions; and yes the majority of this "old" rite is Christian, we must still find an acceptable way for Jewish or Islamic followers to have their voice, even if it is just a few... We must also remember that the word "Christian" covers a vast network of religious variences over the past 2000 years.

Good, open, respectful discussion is what we need to find a new balance within these forum walls...

Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

Let the improvement of yourself keep you so busy that you have no time to criticize others. Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

Participated in the making of the book, “The Jedi Compass”with 2 articles.

For today I serve so that tomorrow I may serve again. One step, One Vow, One Moment... Too always remember it is not about me... Master Neaj Pa Bol

Faith is daring the soul to go beyond what the eyes can see...

Faith is a journey, not a guilt trip...

Quiet your emotions to find inner peace. Learn from ignorance to foster knowledge.
Enjoy your passions but be immersed in serenity. Understand the chaos to see the harmony.
Life and death is to be one with the Force.

Apprentice's: Master Zanthan Storm, Jaxxy (Master Rachat et Espoir (Bridgette Barker))

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jul 2011 03:46 #40153 by Br. John
I'd be delighted to see teachings about faiths that we currently lack but I'd hope to see them from current or at least former members of those faiths. Above all are those who embrace Jediism and still hold another faith / tradition. That's how the Rites arose in the first place. It was in recognition of that.

I realize that attaching labels is playing a dangerous game. The only thing worse is having no labels at all; one must open the can to find out what's inside.

TOTJO is not all things to all people. It's easy to forget we have a solid foundation and walls here because we all get along so well.

If anyone feels like we are not exclusive and there's people we would not have (and they'd not have us) read Jedi Believe again.

Can you think of people you know who do not agree with some of those principals? Or, for that matter, very much disagree with some of them? There are so many examples that I'm almost hesitant to give any.

Let's leave the Death Penalty issue out of this. Here's why. What we have are some members who believe they believe in the Death Penalty. Unless one is on a jury or a judge with an actual vote that can sentence someone to death, it's in theory. Unless one is the person pushing the button on the device that will actually kill someone, it's in theory. I don't know what you'd do in that situation and neither do you. You know what you believe you would do.

This is a (Yes / No ) topic. It's for discussion about if we are doing this right. Should it stay the same or change? If it should change then how?

This started with me having an uneasy feeling that over time we've alienated a significant population of our members. I don't know if we have or not.

I and The Council are listening.

I understand that at this point this topic logically leads to others and anyone should feel free to start a topic.

Thank you all for your input so far.

Founder of The Order

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Jul 2011 04:04 #40154 by Xiam

Br. John wrote: I frequently eat and get take out from a local Black Eye Pea restaurant. The food is very good and so it the service. Several months ago my mother and I went there and the special was Chicken and Dumplings. We ordered it. What a letdown. It was Chicken Soup with dumplings thrown in. Even Campbell's Soup gets this right. They have a Chicken Soup with Dumplings and then they have Chicken and Dumplings which (I hope) you all know is a rich creamy sauce with plenty of chicken and dumplings made from biscuit batter.

Except this is more of a "build your own pizza" thing. You're offering pepperoni, sausage, ham, peppers, pineapple, and mushrooms. You're mostly just getting people who want pepperoni and extra cheese, and wondering if you should just change it to "Pepperoni pizza," even though some people will still want the other options. And rather than simply toss out the other recipes, you'll allow them to request the toppings, though they won't be on the menu (or in small font at the bottom they could very well miss), which may lead them to assume they're not available.


Apologies if I am out of place with this thinking, but like Randi Oxford said, it's a bit like changing the Pagan Rite to "Wiccan Rite." It doesn't feel so much like accurate labeling, as it does an exclusion of everyone else. Again, a minority is still a percentage. Even if there are only two or three, they're still worth having a place to discuss things that isn't "The Forum For Those Two Guys."

Yoda: "Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."

Mr. Miyagi: "Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, [makes squish gesture] get squish just like grape."

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Mark Anjuu
  • Mark Anjuu's Avatar
  • Guest
04 Jul 2011 06:30 - 04 Jul 2011 06:40 #40157 by Mark Anjuu
Replied by Mark Anjuu on topic This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)
If I'm being picky (and as Special Advisor for the Pagan Group, I think I can be), the content of the Pagan section is not exclusively Wiccan. In fact, maybe only half of it would be labelled as such. There are lessons from many different paths, all loosely termed as pagan. I myself am Pagan but I'm not Wiccan.

The content of the Abrahamic section is 100% Christian (whatever the denomination) so as Br.John said, why don't we label it as such. I have yet to come across a Jewish or Muslim member at this site, let alone one that has contributed to the forum by posting insights from those perspectives.

If we get any people identifying as Jewish, or Muslim, or Zoroastrian, or whatever and they would like to start a forum to share knowledge and discussions about that faith, then they are free to do so. So if there are any active Jewish or Muslim Jedi here, speak up and tell us if you would like us to not change the name. Otherwise, I say we change the name because the label would then be more accurate.
Last edit: 04 Jul 2011 06:40 by Mark Anjuu. Reason: spelling mistake

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Jul 2011 00:41 #40171 by ren
We could also merge everything and call it the "Infidels" section.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Jul 2011 02:40 - 06 Jul 2011 02:41 #40233 by Neaj Pa Bol
As always, we get a little silliness going, but we need to come up with yes, no, pro's and con's. For me it is simple, it would be yes but with understanding if it is not. Even if we keep the term Abrahamic Rite and then sub-catagories such as Christian studies,Judaic Studies, etc. Lets get some ideas going so that the council can decided.

Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

Let the improvement of yourself keep you so busy that you have no time to criticize others. Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

Participated in the making of the book, “The Jedi Compass”with 2 articles.

For today I serve so that tomorrow I may serve again. One step, One Vow, One Moment... Too always remember it is not about me... Master Neaj Pa Bol

Faith is daring the soul to go beyond what the eyes can see...

Faith is a journey, not a guilt trip...

Quiet your emotions to find inner peace. Learn from ignorance to foster knowledge.
Enjoy your passions but be immersed in serenity. Understand the chaos to see the harmony.
Life and death is to be one with the Force.

Apprentice's: Master Zanthan Storm, Jaxxy (Master Rachat et Espoir (Bridgette Barker))
Last edit: 06 Jul 2011 02:41 by Neaj Pa Bol. Reason: spelling

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Qui-Ran Demera
  • Qui-Ran Demera's Avatar
  • Guest
06 Jul 2011 02:53 - 06 Jul 2011 03:10 #40234 by Qui-Ran Demera
Replied by Qui-Ran Demera on topic This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)

Br.John wrote: History and the numbers don't support the current name. In the entire history of TOTJO I'm only aware of one member who nominally practiced the Muslim faith and only one or two who claimed the Jewish faith.


Tadaa here is another jewish one. --> Me :D and I hereby speak up.

I actually was very surprised (positively!) that this section was called abrahamic. What a wise desicion I thought, because all monothesitic religions are covered with that.

Why?

Since Christianity and Islam both arise from Judaism, calling this one the Abrahamic section is veeeery appropriate. I am sure you are aware that every Requiem in every curch is referring to Abraham in one of its parts ("Quam olim Abrahae...")

I do not even get the point of this discussion.

Is this a matter of quantity? The fact that 99,9 % here are former Christians (must be former, since Jediism is a different religion?) does not mean that the Christian roots are not jewish and therefore not Abrahamic. Newsflash, they are :D ^^

So I do not know why the name of this subject should be changed... there are other things that should be :)

Conclusion:

Do not start to seperate things that were wisely brought together!

Greetings and bow,
Qui-Ran
Last edit: 06 Jul 2011 03:10 by Qui-Ran Demera.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Tseen Keh
  • Tseen Keh's Avatar
  • Guest
06 Jul 2011 04:15 #40238 by Tseen Keh
On the other hand... It doesn't seem to bother Qui-Ran, who should be interested mostly, so I don't think it's a problem, but when you think of it... Well, imagine that someone of Muslim faith comes here and sees Abrahamic group. He or she thinks "Hey, that's awesome" and then opens the forum. There isn't really anything about his beliefs, everything is Christian. That's quite disappointing actually.

This leaves us with question: better to leave it the way it is, with open doors but giving wrong information, or close the door and give completely true info?

I'd personally chose first option. As a new person, imagining myself in such situation, I'd prefer to start some new discussions in "inactive" subject on already made forum than cause problems by asking for my own sub-category.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Qui-Ran Demera
  • Qui-Ran Demera's Avatar
  • Guest
06 Jul 2011 04:44 #40240 by Qui-Ran Demera
Replied by Qui-Ran Demera on topic This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)
Why should I be interested mostly that the title is changed? :)
All the monotheistic religions origin from the abrahamic one --> Judaism.

So I am completely happy with a topic name that displays right that fact :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Mark Anjuu
  • Mark Anjuu's Avatar
  • Guest
06 Jul 2011 05:30 #40244 by Mark Anjuu
Replied by Mark Anjuu on topic This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)
I think the point that Br.John was trying to make was that even though Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all termed "Abrahamic", the content of that section is 100% Christian-based. If there was ANY Jewish or Muslim content, then the discussion would not have been raised.

Oh, and we believe that Jediism can be practised alongside any other faith. To quote from our Doctrine: "Many Jedi follow a syncretistic religion -- a faith involving elements from two or more religions. Jediism itself is a syncretistic religion. One can be strictly a Jedi, a Wiccan Jedi, a Christian Jedi, a Buddhist Jedi, or an Agnostic Jedi, for example, but Jediism is a religion and a way of life in and of itself."

So you don't have to give up another religion to become a Jedi too.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrickZero