Attention council members (suggestions from those you lead)

ren wrote: I don't see how ryujin's answer can be understood to mean there are no opportunities for 'employment'. Everyone who has an office now used to not have one.

Ideas are always given time to be correctly implemented, have different people give it a shot. Some have been failing for years now. It's also good to know when to quit.

I politely disagree. RyuJins comments make it sound like you must be within the temples inner circle in order to be considered for an office. I have yet to receive a clear yes or no, but instead am receiving long winded answers that happen to mention the higher ups get all the blame.

Who has been gone for months and is still showing as holding a position? I'll update the FAQ and set their status as Inactive.

If I'm forgetting an open position let me know. We need a System Administrator. Ren works too many hours at his paying job and does not have time to repair the site. We need someone who can work with a Linux Server and Joomla. It would be great if such an one is a member.

Do you really believe we haven't tried any of those ideas before?

There was a span in which the council was completely hands off of all the offices...we left it to the knights to run totjo...from get go it became chaos as the knights began to experience what the council had previously...most of those knights left and never returned...then the council got blamed for "not being there"...when previously the council was blamed for being "too over bearing"...whether we engage fully, partially, or not at all, we get blamed for something that some faction perceived as being done wrong.

There is no "inner circle", if one is capable and willing then they may be considered for a position...

In any setting a new hire is not immediately given all the keys...they have to earn them and prove responsible and loyal enough...loyal as in they're not going to make a mess of things and run...we have had that happen seemingly every other year....

Even the most trusted hard-wearing office holders can burn out. They are difficult to replace. No amount of fresh ideas and goodwill can make it happen. They have to be good at it. Most new blood burns out at the first 'realize you can't please everyone' stage... And there are many more stages after.

So far, this is what this thread has produced …

Questions and concerns:
1. Several members would like a thread here created by a council member that updates the temple as to what things are being voted on, when they will be voted on, and if the vote passed or not.
>>> Not addressed: Can there be transparency for members to at least know what’s going on and what decisions there are which will affect them?

2. Multiple members have made note of certain rules not being followed in regards to advancement.
>>> Not addressed: Do you feel there is inconsistency regarding this?

3. Several people want to inquire as to why there are councilors and people holding other temple offices, who have not been at the temple in months and in some cases over a year. And on the same note, there are wonderful knights and councilors here who hold multiple positions (as many as 4) who do a fantastic job, but on the same hand, they also block others from becoming more involved with the temple.
>>> Addressed: but not in a way that this question was intended to be addressed. How can this be handled better so that those who are holding these positions are not overwhelmed? WHAT has been done in the past that you feel failed, and why do you feel it would fail now?

4. Almost everyone has mentioned either knight Edan or Master Rosalyn as being very deserving of some form of official recognition for all of their amazing work they do. I personally am of the opinion that with out these two wonderful women, our temple would have been in shambles months ago if not for their continued capacity to go above and beyond.
>>> Addressed: and yes, they are fantastic with what they do

5. There are system issues that have been present for working on almost a year now such as member photo albums still do not show up for most of our users.
>>> Addressed by Br John with needing people who can do this. Thank you

6. There have also been several requests for updates from the knights corps as to when the new ip might be ready, as well as when the Jedi service corps will become a thing.
>>> Not addressed: I am interested in this as well. Any idea?

The purpose of this thread is not for council members to feel attacked or threatened, but my way of communicating the request of those below the rank of knight (which is 99 percent of the temple).
>>> Addressed with “we are always blamed” as the answer and “we did that once and instead of maintaining it to flush out those who can’t, we gave up”. What has been tried in the past, please? When listed - either within the council or public, doesn’t matter - you can discuss why they did or did not work. What do you feel would encourage loyalty and longevity? What goes wrong when people decide to up and leave every 2 years or so? What makes people stay?

One thing I would like to address for the moment is this.

Please do not think that this is not seriously being discussed nor will the answers to each question be done in 24 hours. I, like others, have full-time jobs, Management such as mine, etc, IRL, as to where I will not spam out an answer to anyone without being serious minded or sincere in a response. I ask that, yes, reply or give thoughts but patience is not being applied either. This can not and should not be looked at as an overnight address...

Let’s show some patience as Jedi should be to answer things....

First off...

I'm very THANKFUL for all of the responses from the council. I'm speaking for myself but it's always nice to hear from you. I'm glad to see such quick responses and I think it's good because it shows that there may be more of a perception issue. I think we, as a community, would benefit from additional transparency (not necessarily full transparency but maybe something like open and closed sessions) but we also need to consider other factors as well.

Secondly...

There are 2 sides to every story. Being able to see both sides is wisdom. I understand that transparency can have downsides as well as apply pressure to vote less on your own belief and opinion and more to what others may want or expect. I think nations have the same problems. We don't need to reinvent the wheel but rather learn from what works and what doesn't around the world.

On one hand, a lack of transparency mixed with the feeling of having no direct influence, will make a government look more like a dictatorship (Even if there's more than one dictator). However, on the other hand, too much influence from too many people could create chaos, and then people could say "oh why did you listen to person C's ideas and not person B or A?"

In some places, if you have enough $$$ people will listen. That is naturally a bad system. No one wants it to look like a totalitarian regime or an oligarchy, but considerations have to be made in order to protect the core identity of the Temple.

So while there are ways for things to work or not work either way it goes, I think the community can help come up with a balanced approach; and it seems like this was a good first step, just offering anonymous ideas. People can voice their thoughts but #1... the council doesn't have to do anything and #2 any idea that actually goes before the council, shouldn't be just an idea but something that has been developed into a plan so that the council isn't expected to flesh an idea out and come up with a plan that they also have no one to execute it.

Maybe there should be an online form/application process, where new ideas need to be sponsored and co-sponsored, and receive a local vote (like a survey) and then the sponsors and co-sponsors can form a team around the idea's author, to create the plan, not just of how it would work, but who would be in charge, what resources it would require, etc.

As much as people might like to have a higher degree of "access" it is also limitations and restrictions that make that same "access" more viable. So while the Council entertains these suggestions I do think we, as a community, need to work on better ways to advance an idea and evolve it into something better for the council to consider.

So maybe if there's 1 "open door" session each month or even one per quarter... And then all the other sessions can be closed door sessions. That might be a more balanced solution.

2. Multiple members have made note of certain rules not being followed in regards to advancement. An example being that the rules say you advance after items a,b, and c are complete, but when those things are checked off, the temple has been disregarding those rules as written and holding people from promotion based on a single councilors opinion.

I can see both sides of this. It's fictional but I think we would be wise to consider how Anakin was treated by the council. On one hand, the council should be voting by a majority so if a single councilor's opinion is able to convince a majority then there should be no issue.

We have to consider that knight is a position of reproduction. You want to produce better knights so that there is a good standard of quality in what TOTJO, as a whole, is producing. We don't want everyone out there saying "I'm a Jedi Knight" to the point where the title becomes meaningless.

Therefore, people who might be a little impatient do need to understand what it is that they are still lacking and given more time to work on it. And that shouldn't be a fully transparent thing; going back to question 1. Because the only people who need to know is that nominee and their TM.

Rules are rules. But we also have training masters. This is a sacred one-on-one relationship ship that uses the rules as a standard baseline but ultimately, this system of masters and apprentices is much better because everyone gets the benefit of personalized training and progression. What other religion can say that? And so if the TM says they have more to teach that person then that's what it should be. If they say "I have no more to teach" then that's also what it should be. If they say "You have much to learn but I have no more to teach." then, although that is unfortunate, it's also necessary as well. Because again... these titles that some people want so badly... they need to mean something. And the councils is the last line of defense in protecting that meaning.

Neaj Pa Bol wrote: One thing I would like to address for the moment is this.

Please do not think that this is not seriously being discussed nor will the answers to each question be done in 24 hours. I, like others, have full-time jobs, Management such as mine, etc, IRL, as to where I will not spam out an answer to anyone without being serious minded or sincere in a response. I ask that, yes, reply or give thoughts but patience is not being applied either. This can not and should not be looked at as an overnight address...

Let’s show some patience as Jedi should be to answer things....

This is good to know. It's much easier to have patience, for me at least, when I know that something is being addressed. As someone with no access to the upper forums, this is the only place I had any idea these concerns were being discussed. Maybe this goes along with transparency conversation; it would have been good to have some kind of official "this has been seen and is on our agenda, thank you" sort of thing.

Simple answer, we have given many members opportunities to be involved...none of them are here any longer...those of us on the council and holding offices are the few that have managed to stay around...we may or may not be as active in the forums as those with less responsibility, but we are always watching things...I have been here 12 years myself...only 2 other active members have been here longer (maybe 3)...everything being brought up now, has been brought up before and tried before and failed before.

This was a great answer. In many cases, just hearing "we tried that" is very valuable for the people being led.

If I may, let's put it into the same terms as a regular job.

Although many jobs can be done by monkeys, many other jobs require special skills or knowledge. Part of the requirements should be loyalty to the Temple. How many months has this person been here? Have they served in other capacities before? Is there a track record?

Perhaps, somewhat of a middle ground could be that every central position is made by appointment and then that person has to list open spots where anyone can then serve in that department in the capacity of the job/volunteer posting. That person then gets credit for each month in that job and therefore the supervising central position can issue a recommendation/nomination for that person to be considered for a future appointment.

Strong organizations are hierarchies. If the pathway to the top is too easy/quick then the organization, as a whole, will be diluted to the point of nonexistence.

In the United States, every new administration (potentially every 4 years) looks at each appointed position and often times keeps the person in charge but can replace that person with a new appointment. The new appointment can open those dept positions back up or evaluate people for a time before deciding to keep them.

The council is like an administration. While it is natural for those in a position of ultimate responsibility to accept some blame, less blame will go around as long as everyone agrees on the system itself (like the US constitution). It's not just a statement who we are but how we run things. And every healthy system needs checks and balances.

I think Initiates should have jobs and/or tasks they can do and I'm very interested in what the Service Corp can do in this regard. But if the initiates have things they can do in order to prove themselves, then it would become a much easier decision when it comes to appointments and who can take on more. With that said, I see things getting better and that progress is all that matters as Rome wasn't built in a day.

So I think the answer to this question is that there must be quality over quantity. Our main focus has been on advancing Jedi knowledge, wisdom, and understanding; the mind of a Jedi. The heart of a Jedi is something everyone must find within. At the same time, I think the might of a Jedi, found in service, is something we should start to solidify and cultivate. And THEN we can create an organizational pathway to higher levels of service that will be fair and keep more people engaged without the same revolving door.