Rape Culture

I've been seeing articles and posts discussing rape culture. I'm no expert on it so I decided to ask others more about it. Obviously it's a real phenomenon as evidenced by the endless reports of rape, university coverups, church coverups, executive coverups, etc. Some people are saying that men have the power to change this culture.

I grew up in a household where we didn't hurt girls and you got a severe beating if you hurt one. In school there was a similar credo. It became a double-standard and the girls caught on to it. My childhood was filled with memories of being abused by females because I was male. I witnessed laws get enacted to enforce the double-standard. If you so much as even raised a hand to your abuser you would be charged with assault and given a lengthy prison sentence. If you spoke out about the abuse you were ridiculed for being weak.

Another experience I had the "privilege" of living through was the "us vs them" mentality of post-modern women who came after the advent of feminism. I got to deal with young women who hated men and had been taught all their lives that men are dogs, scum, etc. I've had to listen to conversations by women in public describing men as worthless human beings, sub-humans, etc. I've had uncountable numbers of women use me for money, car rides, free dinners, etc.

I honestly believe this "rape culture" and the experiences I've had are related. I don't think I'm the only one to have experienced this and it's probably most men who experience this. As for me, instead of raping some woman, I forsake them. I decided not to have kids, not to marry, and not to date women. I can see how someone else might go with rape if their morals are corrupted, as is often the case with people who are abused.

In the end, I was able to find a woman who grew up removed from this culture and we've been married for 8 years with no problems. Our greatest strength is our mutual respect for one another and we both plan on staying together for the rest of our lives. Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" and it enrages the women on my side of the family but we all know she's right.

I've also known a few women who were raped. Our relationships never lasted more than a few days so I can't really comment on their experiences but I learrned a few things.

Definition according to Wiki

"Rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of certain forms of sexual violence that do not conform to certain stereotypes of stranger or violent rape."

"To a dark place this line of thought will take us" - Yoda


This is a very sensitive topic. :dry:

I used to be one of those FLY YOUR HATE RAPE FLAG kinda guys but something some one said left me feeling like a hypocrite.

Though I disapprove of rape in any case I also never stood up against arranged marriages. I never shed a tear for those that are forced to marry and then consummate the marriage against their will.

Are arranged marriages the exception to rape?

Daniel L. wrote: "To a dark place this line of thought will take us" - Yoda


This is a very sensitive topic. :dry:

I used to be one of those FLY YOUR HATE RAPE FLAG kinda guys but something some one said left me feeling like a hypocrite.

Though I disapprove of rape in any case I also never stood up against arranged marriages. I never shed a tear for those that are forced to marry and then consummate the marriage against their will.

Are arranged marriages the exception to rape?

Thats an interesting thought Master D. I would imagine that it does fit into the definition of rape if the marriage and consummation is forced. Particularly concerning if those entering into the marriage are minors.

But while a "sensitive" topic, I think its an important one. The trivialization or normalization of any kind of violence, sexual or other wise certainly does not appear to be doing any culture good.

Brenna wrote: Definition according to Wiki

"Rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of certain forms of sexual violence that do not conform to certain stereotypes of stranger or violent rape."

culture of the society I live in: if you're a being forced to have sex, depending on how society classifies you you are not, under any circumstances, being raped. In fact, the victim can easily be made out to be a perpetrator as can be seen in social attitudes, the media, and law. This issue is trivialized, ignored and the harm of this sort of sexual violence is not acknowledged.

rape culture is when one part of the society controls the sexuality of the other part of that society. When natural behaviour is repressed by law, when some have control over their own and others' reproductive rights whilst these others are powerless unless they mutilate themselves, when they suffer sexual mutilations as a baby in order to prevent masturbation later on, etc.

Whyte Horse wrote: Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" .

As well she should. Respect is an important aspect in any relationship.

Brenna wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" .

As well she should. Respect is an important aspect in any relationship.

Indeed, mutual respect. One sided respect is no respect, in my opinion. (Edit: I mean to say, one sided respect suggests to me not enough respect for yourself, if you're not getting it in return from your partner)

Brenna wrote:

Whyte Horse wrote: Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" .

As well she should. Respect is an important aspect in any relationship.

lol, while I know it is unsaid, since this forum IS seen by non-members of the site, and that I read this slightly wrong at first glance, the point of that last sentence by Brenna means "Respect is important aspect, by both sides, in any relationship"...

You are right, of course, just claifying for the search engines, :lol:....

Daniel wrote: This is a very sensitive topic.

Brenna wrote: But while a "sensitive" topic, I think its an important one

Yes, so please every, maximum respect in this conversation please, and take it to PM to clear up any bad feelings so that this remains civil...

Brenna wrote, that Wiki wrote: Rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

Ren wrote: culture of the society I live in: if you're a being forced to have sex, depending on how society classifies you you are not, under any circumstances, being raped. In fact, the victim can easily be made out to be a perpetrator as can be seen in social attitudes, the media, and law. This issue is trivialized, ignored and the harm of this sort of sexual violence is not acknowledged.

Although we do have our local societies, such as where Ren lives, versus where I live, versus where Brenna lives...

We are becoming a world society, and therefore s 'world culture'...

Again, Brenna wrote, that Wiki wrote: Definition according to Wiki

"Rape culture is a concept that links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape.

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of certain forms of sexual violence that do not conform to certain stereotypes of stranger or violent rape."]

Ren" wrote: rape culture is when one part of the society controls the sexuality of the other part of that society. When natural behaviour is repressed by law, when some have control over their own and others' reproductive rights whilst these others are powerless unless they mutilate themselves, when they suffer sexual mutilations as a baby in order to prevent masturbation later on, etc.

I dont know that I would call your definition a 'rape culture' Ren...

That seems like a oppressive culture, a dictatorship, but "rape"?

Rape is basically defined as "unwanted sexually acts" or "sexual acts against the will of the victim".... I didnt look that up, it is how it would be defined if you walked up to the average person and ask them if they knew what "rape" is...

While it would and does include power over the victim, that is dominance... Unless you are considering the mental abuse as 'mind rape'?

++++++++++++++++++++++
Both parties, men and women cheapen the act of rape....

While not only does it get downplayed by authorities, but, I dated a girl who threatened me with it... And, while the many sexual exchanges might have cleared me, just the act of being accused can destroy a life...

Young men in a gaming store I occasionally visit think that saying "Im gonna rape you" is a perfectly acceptable thing to say... It is a part of the barbaric game they are playing, a threat of dominance over the opponent...

It is my sister's store, and she threw a fit, getting the boys to stop... But her boyfriend, and co-owner, said, "Oh, its just a term they use."...

Examples abound....

I dont care whether we talk about rape, or abuse, or enlightenment, or apologetics ( ren), or what, but education is going to be the answer to it...

Just my thoughts...

Whyte Horse wrote: I've been seeing articles and posts discussing rape culture. I'm no expert on it so I decided to ask others more about it. Obviously it's a real phenomenon as evidenced by the endless reports of rape, university coverups, church coverups, executive coverups, etc. Some people are saying that men have the power to change this culture.

I grew up in a household where we didn't hurt girls and you got a severe beating if you hurt one. In school there was a similar credo. It became a double-standard and the girls caught on to it. My childhood was filled with memories of being abused by females because I was male. I witnessed laws get enacted to enforce the double-standard. If you so much as even raised a hand to your abuser you would be charged with assault and given a lengthy prison sentence. If you spoke out about the abuse you were ridiculed for being weak.

Another experience I had the "privilege" of living through was the "us vs them" mentality of post-modern women who came after the advent of feminism. I got to deal with young women who hated men and had been taught all their lives that men are dogs, scum, etc. I've had to listen to conversations by women in public describing men as worthless human beings, sub-humans, etc. I've had uncountable numbers of women use me for money, car rides, free dinners, etc.

I honestly believe this "rape culture" and the experiences I've had are related. I don't think I'm the only one to have experienced this and it's probably most men who experience this. As for me, instead of raping some woman, I forsake them. I decided not to have kids, not to marry, and not to date women. I can see how someone else might go with rape if their morals are corrupted, as is often the case with people who are abused.

In the end, I was able to find a woman who grew up removed from this culture and we've been married for 8 years with no problems. Our greatest strength is our mutual respect for one another and we both plan on staying together for the rest of our lives. Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" and it enrages the women on my side of the family but we all know she's right.

I've also known a few women who were raped. Our relationships never lasted more than a few days so I can't really comment on their experiences but I learrned a few things.

No doubt that feminism's a bitch, no pun intended. That's why I found a girl from a culture that is the absolute antithesis of feminism.

On the subject of rape, though- here in the US, it's really like the boy crying wolf. I don't mean to be insensitive to rape victims, but the number of girls I've met claiming to have been raped or otherwise sexually exploited is staggering. Of course, I don't believe them all. Leave it to feminism to make victimhood fashionable.

You know the number of men and women that have been abused or raped IS staggering..
And the way the victims are treated by the courts, police and people in general is what makes most people anti men or anti women.
Respect for everyone, male or female should be taught to children and hitting anyone, same sex or not should be judged the same.

I actually recently went through SAPR (Sexual Assault Prevention and Response) training. It's a yearly requirement in the Air Force. The first thing the instructor had us do was stand up, then she had signs in the room that said "Yes" or "No" She asked "Do you know someone who has been raped?" Out of the 20 people who were in that room, three young Airmen went and stood by the 'no'. I was absolutely shocked. We were then asked if we knew more than one person who was raped. Two more people went to stand by the "no". The third question was "How many of you know a male who was raped?" which left four people standing by "Yes". This is a random group of people pulled from the squadron who required the training. It's kind of scary considering that we're supposed to be looking out for each other and here 17 people out of 20 knew someone who had been raped and 15 knew of more than one.

As a female, I feel sorry for the guys who have to watch every step they take when they are out drinking. "No means no" and "Alcohol means no consent". It sucks that a few women wake up in the morning with regrets and it's the men who take the fall. It sucks that because of that, other women who were genuinely raped are held against that.

The Air Force has two different ways to report. Restricted and Unrestricted. Restricted Reporting does not go anywhere beyond medical and mental aid for the victim and there are several resources to go to for Restricted Reporting including the Chaplain, and not even the Chain of Command gets notified about it. (I just say this because I think it's pretty awesome that this is available.)

The numbers are staggering though. In the Department of Defense (military and civilians under DoD) there were 5,518 victims in fy 2013 (14% were male) only 3,768 are unrestricted reports. They estimate that only 11% of sexual assaults are reported (either restricted or unrestricted).

(Here's the big document: http://www.sapr.mil/public/docs/reports/FY13_DoD_SAPRO_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault.pdf)
(Here's the fact sheet: http://www.sapr.mil/public/docs/reports/FY13_DoD_SAPRO_Annual_Report_Fact_Sheet.pdf)

The training we were given lists the jokes as being the starting point for the "hunt". Fostering an environment where they can separate their target. (I’m sorry, most of my working experience is in the military so this is most that I can share, and I don’t remember it being that much different on the outside honestly) I don't know if you've ever sat in a military work center but the jokes are common. I've never considered them bad enough to pull issues with but I guarantee that if the Commander or a SAPR coordinator were present, we'd get into serious trouble. Are these jokes fostering a rape culture? Eh, partly. I'm not male, and I know the guys curb their tongue a bit around me, but I’ve heard the ‘usual’ talk of treating women as little better than meat. Do I feel as if they do towards me? No. Are they just joking or posturing and don’t mean it? Probably mostly.

My personal view on male vs female as far as standards go is this: "Hi! You're a person! Let's respect each other and be friends!". I see the double standards all the time. They go both ways. I'll ask guys at work to help me to install the UPSs that weigh 80+ lbs. But that's generally a two-person job anyways. I'll ask guys to get stuff from the higher racks if they're easier to get than a ladder because I'm short and stubby and most of them are taller than me. But if I punch a guy, I expect to get a fight back. Other than my siblings, I've never struck anyone. Mostly because that's not my personality, but partly because I don't like hurting and I expect repercussions

There has been very few times where I have felt discounted because I am female and I do wonder how many of those were simply perception on my part. Most of them revolve around work. Part of them revolve around video or card games. There are many people out there who don’t think I know what I know or can do what I do simply because I am female. It is irritating sometimes. Sometimes it’s simply funny. But I rarely take it personal. Half of the time it falls to my advantage because they underestimate me. I know I’m an odd-ball as far as the classic female view goes, so much of that comes with the territory. I don’t think it necessarily SHOULD but I do think that it does make me interesting haha.

Edit: meant to add:

Whyte Horse wrote: Sometimes she says things like "A woman must respect her husband" and it enrages the women on my side of the family but we all know she's right.

I'd have to agree with your wife although I'd have to add "A husband must respect his wife." I don't know one relationship that has lasted long without mutual trust and respect

Kamizu wrote: But if I punch a guy, I expect to get a fight back

A very unpopular opinion, but one I agree with...

Growing up male, I was told I could not hit my sister, or any girl, generally being weaker than me... Im a big guy...

But, when I complained that my sister would hit me first, I was told it doesnt matter, and that I couldnt hit girls...

Thats some bull, lol... (it was my sister, lol, you know I hit her back, and then had to bribe her to be quiet, lol)

Ive had a change of heart after watching something, I forget what, but, basically, the gist of it was, "If a woman wants to punch like a man, then I will treat her like she wants to be treated, because I dont tolerate being punched my men either..."

Sorry for the derail, I was going to say it earlier, but since KAmizu brought it up, I thought I might as well throw it in there...

Although we do have our local societies, such as where Ren lives, versus where I live, versus where Brenna lives...

We are becoming a world society, and therefore s 'world culture'...

Not really. If a woman forces me to have sex with her, I cannot accuse her of rape, but she can counter-accuse me of rape. That is the society I live in, and I know it's not the same everywhere else.

Similarly in the US you guys get bits of your junk cut off as babies, because a very long time ago someone had the grand idea it would prevent you from masturbating, I have not experienced this culture.

I dont know that I would call your definition a 'rape culture' Ren...

That seems like a oppressive culture, a dictatorship, but "rape"?

Rape is basically defined as "unwanted sexually acts" or "sexual acts against the will of the victim".... I didnt look that up, it is how it would be defined if you walked up to the average person and ask them if they knew what "rape" is...

While it would and does include power over the victim, that is dominance... Unless you are considering the mental abuse as 'mind rape'?

Actually it's not a dictatorship, it's a constitutional monarchy called the UK. This is what the situation for men here is. The circumcision thing is more of a US thing however, and yes, I dare say that it's an even worse type of rape than forced sex. forced sex means unwanted bodily fluids, maybe even disease... but no cutting bits off your junk.

rape is to be deprived of control over your own sexuality, I would indeed understand "mind rape" as being a loss of control over one's own mind.

You know the number of men and women that have been abused or raped IS staggering..

I went up hanley to club last week-end... Was kind of a dead night, which means people had more opportunities to talk to one another... What staggers me is that the concept of rape even still exists. Don't get me wrong, when I went out regularly 10 years ago, guys were clearly pervs and girls whores that could be bought with a bottle of vodka at the table, however we still had some sense of taste and would try to get along and make some efforts and such. I certainly had never witnessed a girl covered in her own puke hunt for men (and scoring) until last week.

Actually in the uk if you are male and a female forces you to have sex they WILL prosecute the woman. And counter accusations happen in male/female rape and female/male rape. There is not one law for females and another for males.
And you obviously go to the wrong clubs in Hanley Ren.

ren wrote:

Although we do have our local societies, such as where Ren lives, versus where I live, versus where Brenna lives...

We are becoming a world society, and therefore s 'world culture'...

Not really. If a woman forces me to have sex with her, I cannot accuse her of rape, but she can counter-accuse me of rape. That is the society I live in, and I know it's not the same everywhere else.

Similarly in the US you guys get bits of your junk cut off as babies, because a very long time ago someone had the grand idea it would prevent you from masturbating, I have not experienced this culture.

I dont know that I would call your definition a 'rape culture' Ren...

That seems like a oppressive culture, a dictatorship, but "rape"?

Rape is basically defined as "unwanted sexually acts" or "sexual acts against the will of the victim".... I didnt look that up, it is how it would be defined if you walked up to the average person and ask them if they knew what "rape" is...

While it would and does include power over the victim, that is dominance... Unless you are considering the mental abuse as 'mind rape'?

Actually it's not a dictatorship, it's a constitutional monarchy called the UK. This is what the situation for men here is. The circumcision thing is more of a US thing however, and yes, I dare say that it's an even worse type of rape than forced sex. forced sex means unwanted bodily fluids, maybe even disease... but no cutting bits off your junk.

rape is to be deprived of control over your own sexuality, I would indeed understand "mind rape" as being a loss of control over one's own mind.

You know the number of men and women that have been abused or raped IS staggering..

I went up hanley to club last week-end... Was kind of a dead night, which means people had more opportunities to talk to one another... What staggers me is that the concept of rape even still exists. Don't get me wrong, when I went out regularly 10 years ago, guys were clearly pervs and girls whores that could be bought with a bottle of vodka at the table, however we still had some sense of taste and would try to get along and make some efforts and such. I certainly had never witnessed a girl covered in her own puke hunt for men (and scoring) until last week.

Ren, I hate to get off topic, but is circumcision not common in the UK? I know I have a friend from Germany, and another from South Africa who weren't mutilated, but I didn't know about the UK.

I was circumcised, like most US males, and I'm thoroughly against it.

Well that makes things a little clearer. Having some numbers from the military puts it into perspective. As a person who has lived in the US, Russia, Indonesia, and Thailand... I've seen a few different cultures. The US was, by far, the most violent and competitive of all of them.

It seems to me that a society which encourages people to compete with one another creates all kinds of problems. I don't know if it's ever been studied as a cause of rape culture...

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steamboat28 wrote:
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Traditionally, men didn't hit women because we lived in a logical culture where men and women had different double-standards and privileges, pros and cons, and so on. Back then, men didn't hit women because women were taught not to commit offenses worthy of hitting. With the proliferation and normalization of feminism, I have no issue hitting a woman now, though I try not to hit anybody if I can help it.

Actually in the uk if you are male and a female forces you to have sex they WILL prosecute the woman.

Negative. they are only victims of sexual assault, not rape.

"Rape

(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person ( with his penis,
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life."

that's the legal definition of rape in the UK, defined by the sexual offences act 2003.
It is very clearly sexist.

And you obviously go to the wrong clubs in Hanley Ren.

Should probably not have gone to Hanley to be fair, though this happened in Liquid, which doesn't seem too bad.

Ren, I hate to get off topic, but is circumcision not common in the UK? I know I have a friend from Germany, and another from South Africa who weren't mutilated, but I didn't know about the UK.

I was circumcised, like most US males, and I'm thoroughly against it.

male circumcision is carried out by jews, muslims and americans, that's about it.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6966989/the-real-reason-youre-circumcised

Okay I looked that up and your right, I knew that females had been prosecuted and assumed it was for rape... As the offence commited was rape. But no, so got to agree that UK law is sexist...
That is wrong, there shouldn't be one law for females and another for males.
Apologies

And liquid? Really? :blink: