The Field, and Lynn McTaggert

I have been poking around in the studies section, and I have to ask...

Is it necessary to complete every single part of it? I don't think I can sit through listening to all of The Field. I am familiar with Lynne McTaggert, and while I would not go so far as to say I hate her, I have nothing but the deepest levels of contempt for that woman.

There are very few things in this world I well and truly despise, but she is a fear monger of the highest order, which I feel goes directly against Jedi teaching, or at least should. It certainly flies in the face of the Doctrine.

She is so viciously anti-vaccine and influential (in certain circles) that she could fairly be said to be responsible for more deaths than any malpractice, and she very well illustrates in just the opening parts of The Field that she has what might be generously termed an infantile grasp on Quantum Mechanics.

Her publications do harm by suggesting such tripe as HIV can be cured by Vitamin C, and in what I have thus far gotten out of the Field, she leaps on singular studies to support her views, while ignoring vast bodies of evidence that contradict her. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that anything like a psychic exists, and so far in history every last one of them that has risen to fame has been proven to be either mentally unbalanced or a fraud.

Quantum mechanics is an immensely complex subject that requires a very good grasp of advanced mathmatics to understand, and McTaggert clearly does not. Things that work on a quantum level do not work on a large level, no matter how much she might want them to. This is why a unifying field theory is such an important goal in the world of Physics.


I am sorry to say that if this is what the ToTJO espouses- fear of modern science, and the deplorable idea that if you are somehow disadvantaged in life you just aren't wishing hard enough, that I cannot in good conscience be involved.

I can understand that it might serve as a helpful illustrative tool... but The Field has no bearing on reality, and if this woman has any sort of contribution or bearing on the Jedi Order, then by extension, the Jedi Order does not in fact represent my belief as I had thought. It stands against everything I believe.


But I do not think that this is something the Jedi Order was perhaps aware of, when it placed her in the curriculum.

After all, isn't one of the statements of belief that "Jedi believe In a society governed by laws grounded in reason and compassion, not in fear or prejudice?"

Lynn McTaggert does not possess a rational, reasoning intellect. She condemns the measles vaccine as something lethal (which according to the CDC, people like her are responsible for the current outbreak). She claims to be able to help people with incurable forms of cancer, merely by paying her. She sells such fakery and hokum as electromagnetic bracelets, which have been proven time and again to have no actual benefits other than that of a placebo- it tricks your mind into believing it helps, but only if you already believe.

Doesn't the very existence of a woman like this in the curriculum go against the idea of Wisdom, Knowledge, and Focus?

I cannot understand why this pseudoscientific quackery wasn't chucked out long ago.

I understand and respect that many people believe in something like a unifying force, in The Force. There's no reason to say it doesn't exist- according to science, it very well may. But we don't know that for sure, and it certainly isn't anything like what Lynn McTaggert is selling if it does. And for those who follow a code similar to what is espoused in the Doctrine, intentional ignorance by investing heavily in this kind of pseudoscience should not be even considered- it corrupts the mind by filling it with falsehoods.

In short? Lynn McTaggert is a fraud, and a harmful one.

http://www.badscience.net/2006/02/the-great-tamiflu-vaccine-scare/
http://dmitrybrant.com/2007/09/05/the-non-science-of-lynne-mctaggart
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2010/12/ted-quacks.html
http://touchinglynaivebooks.wordpress.com/2006/02/26/the-vaccination-bible-lynne-mctaggart/
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html
http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2012/10/04/wddty-what-doctors-dont-tell-you-magazine-and-the-hpv-vaccine/
http://josephinejones.wordpress.com/2012/10/04/quack-rag-distributor-threatens-to-sue-singh-relevant-links-and-what-you-can-do/

You know, I'm not in any official capacity here, but if you put this exact post in your journal, I'd say that's a fair report on her work and that would be the assignment anyway.

Seems like you know enough about it and have thought a lot about it.

I agree with Connor.

You could put that exact post in your journal for the I.P. and you'd pass with flying colors. Because something is assigned for study, doesn't means it's required for you to believe in it.

The Field has come up in discussions behind the scenes a few times, and it probably will again.

I find it very interesting to hear the perspectives of those that disagree with something, sometimes more than those that have nothing but praise for a topic.

My thinking is not as staunch as yours is against the Field, but I'm not into any of the pseudo-sciences either, i.e. Reiki, The Field, crystals etc.

However, having said that, I can't deny those that get benefits from such things, even if it is nothing more than the placebo effect.

Don't worry about it Nothing wrong with disagreeing...

One purpose of the Initiates Program is to test for critical thinking and see if someone agrees with something just because it's there. It's not a list of things endorsed or believed by The Order.

That's reassuring. Thank you for the reply, Brother John.

Perhaps its just my sense of humour, but theres something deliciously amusing about an online Temple for a religion based on a bunch of space wizards from a science fiction movie, being accused of involvement with quackery that has no bearing on reality.

:silly: :woohoo:

Thanks for posting this, Ty.

I understand the use of having a kind of textual "test" of a person's credulity, but... I mean, when I joined I thought these first materials were our kind of foundational texts as a religion. The Campbell and Watts pretty much have been, for me.

Given the lack of commentary on the IP exercises once completed, is this test really serving its purpose? I have no doubt this book is either a stumbling block or a real turn-off for others when weighing up if we're a legitimate religion or a bunch of lunatics. Rather than saying we all have individual conceptions of the Force and what it means, to me it sort of suggested you guys all believed it to be explained by this ( imho ) pseudoscientific book by an infamous quack. Whilst I have no problem that some may find it very useful, convincing and representative of their beliefs, to others like myself and Ty who are already aware of McTaggert and her personal agenda... I don't feel it fits well with Jediism, as I understand it some months later.

I try not to criticise without suggesting an alternative... how about someone write an essay on different conceptions of and explanations for the Force (a little like the essays in clerical training), giving a breakdown of the more common ideas? Off the back of this brief breakdown, you could provide links to a variety of texts (including The Field, perhaps the Tao Te Ching, perhaps a more general look at prana/qi/reiki and others) for each view, and ask Novices to write a minimum-word-counted essay on both one they feel convincing, and one they feel farthest from their personal conception of the Force.

That way you're still encouraging interaction with the idea, still asking people to look at their own credulity, but not prescribing a single specific definition for critique. I believe the Force is inherently personal - to provide a single, long "explanation" of it right at the start of the IP seems, to me, unrepresentative of the actual range of belief at the Temple.

Br. John wrote: One purpose of the Initiates Program is to test for critical thinking and see if someone agrees with something just because it's there. It's not a list of things endorsed or believed by The Order.

And yet, while one is still new and superficially familiar with the community, it is not an unreasonable assumption to suppose that IP contents are actual study contents rather than a test. Besides, its not that there is a way of failing this particular portion of it. If you have no critical approach to this particular exercise, its not like it is objectionable. If you demonstrate you looked at the material at all, beyond that, it is of negligible relevance what it is exactly you think of it when it comes to progress in the TOTJO studies, isn't it?

On top of that, just to keep up my reputation of posting notoriously controversial pronouncements, here's a thought:
Rather than testing people for their critical thinking skills (as if seeking out a community that at least on the surface lists committment to any kind of a supernatural power somewhere among its priorities wasn't enough of a testimony) and then making the results of the test entirely irrelevant for any further progress, how about introducing people to critical thinking instead? Surely, whosoever shall not like that introduction or not stand up to its requirements will be filtered out by the test itself rendering a review of the results even less of a necessity. If critical thinking is a valued skill in this place, then surely an uneffective test for it has much less use than active teaching of it, and I'm not even mentioning how much more of a service the latter would be to the people who go through such exercises.

*starts building a pillow bunker for protection from the incoming bullet hail*

... putting a flower on Gisteron's pillow --

This would be a most welcome change. Showing people that thinking is not just 'remembering something one had at some moment learnt' - developping some critical thinking skills, the wise application of methodical doubt AND separating the action of thinking from the passivity of simply holding an opinion could be one of the most humane things the Temple would offer in the Initiates' Programme. That is, if one decided not to pursue anything else, that could be at least one gift we could bestow ...

It is a very apt concern being expressed here and one that I personally had not previously considered. It is very possible that someone freshly come into the community would not grasp at first that this selection ("The Field" en occurence) is presented as something to ponder - NOT something to revere. As it were, none of the texts/materials we present should be revered ... This is not the norm, as most people understand it, within a church of a religion.

Yes, thank you, Ty, for again bringing this to our attention.

I haven't read McTaggart's other works. I had resistance to The Field because it had Oprah roll out appearance, which does not appeal to me.

The Field is harmless. She doesn't claim to prove anything. Neither does Campbell.

She doesn't claim to be scientist. The reviews about her are far more sensational and emotional than The Field. She claims or proves nothing. She does say an awful lot of perhaps, maybe, possibly . . . .

I haven't heard any one at the Temple make any claims that any of the works in the IP are fact or reflective of the TotJOs poltical, public, scientific or religious opinion.

Mareeka, the temple endorses it by having it on the site as part of a requirement to progress in the organization.


It's like having required reading to be confirmed in the Catholic church. It's a decent assumption that what you read has bearing on the religion.

So while this may simply be something to ponder, there should at the very least be a disclaimer- but I have to say, I have no better conception of what people might think the Force is than when I first got here, even with the IP. So something similar to what Gisteron suggested would be extremely welcome.

The IP materials are not doctrine, nor are there any claims that they are.

Just because I use Tide laundry detergent doesnt mean I like, endorse, dislike, or don't support Nascar.

May you enjoy the experience of your journey here.

I've been particularly opposed to the inclusion of that thing during my years on the council, but the evil witch has her supporters here. It's sad to see some of the newer knights believe that the IP content is somehow at the core of jedi teachings when it really isn't.

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/sermons/2073-what-is-a-basic-teaching

What is a Basic Teaching?

Good evening to everyone who joins us here today.

This sermon will focus more on the aspects of the above question as they relate to basic teaching materials.

What is considered at the Temple as being the most ‘basic’ part of our religious teaching is probably expressed the most completely in our Doctrine.

The Doctrine is the heart of our Temple. Now how does it teach us?

Well the answer is that it doesn’t. It can inform people what Jedi at this temple believe and understand but it doesn’t give them the experience of what those Jedi believe and understand.

This is probably all well and good because if it did let me assure you, it would be hundreds of thousands of words long…

That is because we do not use the Doctrine as a teaching resource by itself. You begin exploring the teaching resources in the Initiates Programme and further in your Apprenticeship and further still when you realise you’ve done all that and still don’t understand it all!

The Doctrine could best be thought of as bullet point form for learning, for what is in the Doctrine is also in the materials we use to teach here. They are not separate; they are one and the same. The only real difference being that each piece of teaching material talks about perhaps only one or two parts of the doctrine –going into each at length.

Any material out there can be used to teach us something, whether it is a lesson learned or simply an example of what not to do. We are familiar with the works of Watts and Campbell, but there are countless other books, myths and even pieces of artwork that all make us think. If it makes us think then we can learn from it.

Our doctrine is knowledge, understanding it is wisdom. Without the materials we use to understand what it means, our doctrine is nothing more than an intellectual curiosity.

Our creed, the one on our doctrine page, was adapted from the ‘Peace Prayer’ of St Francis of Assisi.

I think it is fitting tonight that we use a different creed, adapted too from another prayer. This alternative is based on the Serenity Prayer by Reinhold Niebuhr.

As we have not said it before there is no need to respond, you may simply read and consider each line as it presents itself to you.


I am a Jedi:
I accept the things I cannot change;
I have courage to change the things I can;
I have wisdom to know the difference.
I am a Jedi:
I live in the present;
I enjoy one moment at a time;
I accept hardships as a pathway to peace;
I take this world as it is, not as I would have it;
I am a Jedi:
I trust The Force;
In doing so things become right;
In doing so I am content;
Forever in our everlasting life.
You are a Jedi.
May The Force be with you, always.

Akkarin, at least part of that sermon is misleading, if not blatantly false.

The Doctrine could best be thought of as bullet point form for learning, for what is in the Doctrine is also in the materials we use to teach here. They are not separate; they are one and the same. The only real difference being that each piece of teaching material talks about perhaps only one or two parts of the doctrine –going into each at length.

As I pointed out in my first post, Lynn McTaggert and her writings- all of them- go against the Jedi Doctrine as laid out on the Doctrine page. She is a fear mongering fraud and profiteer.

If it is a test, then fine, it should be couched as such.

Otherwise, it should be gotten rid of. It is contradictory with actual Jedi teaching.

All of them? One should not deal in absolutes.

I am in no way a fan of McTaggart. I had not heard of her until I started reading The Field, but from what I have read, she is one of a long line that pray on the hopes, fears, and delusions of people in order to get their money.

But you know what? I am still reading the book. I actually enjoyed the first part of the book, until I started seeing all the wild leaps of logic. It is clear to me why this should be included in the IP. It is a possible scientific explanation of what the Force is. It may not be correct, but it is certainly fun to think about.

I have found that many who vehemently oppose The Field, are doing so because they either oppose who she is as a person, or because they have little faith in the readers to be able to tell that her conclusions are basically dressed up opinions. She does not claim to be a scientist, and she acknowledges that the concepts that she is dealing with are difficult to present (outside of an advanced knowledge of mathematics). She oversimplifies and draws wholly erroneous conclusions from very small amounts of data. She is not perfect, and neither is her book.

Nevertheless, I can still read this book, and accept what she says for what it is... opinion. And as we all know, opinions are like assholes, and so on.

So let me also vote for the sentiment that you should copy your OP in your journal and call it a day. You obviously know about the subject, and have made up your mind on it, and that was the assignment.

Gisteron wrote: Rather than testing people for their critical thinking skills...how about introducing people to critical thinking instead?

This, exactly. If I were re-organizing the IP, I'd add in some modules on critical thinking and logic (and "God Wants You Dead" as non-optional material) before ever introducing Watts or Campbell, simply because it helps one to better understand their own worldview, and discuss it with others in a sane, rational, consistent fashion, rather than the shouting and talking-over-one-another and disagreement on glosses and meanings that usually occur anytime two people in the Temple disagree.

Ren wrote: I've been particularly opposed to the inclusion of that thing during my years on the council, but the evil witch has her supporters here. It's sad to see some of the newer knights believe that the IP content is somehow at the core of jedi teachings when it really isn't.

Love it or hate it (I choose the latter, personally), "The Field" is a very important way to close out Exercise 4 as it currently stands. It introduces some interesting points, and mistakenly hides them behind a misunderstanding of science. This combination of aspects is a very educational one, and I think it should remain, even though it's composed of 85% fecal matter.

Furthermore, I'm going to build a couchfort neighboring Gisteron's pillow fortress, because I personally think that if the IP has nothing to do with core Jedi teachings, it needs to be utterly replaced by things that are core Jedi teachings. There is no sense having an introductory course that functions as a test if it doesn't also provide foundational material necessary to the continuing of training. If the IP serves no purpose but as a grand test of who does and doesn't "belong" here, why not just pose a simple question at the gate and turn away all those who answer foolishly? If the IP teaches nothing, it is the same process, but requiring much more effort, and returning greater frustration.

I dont think its a test of ones character, but an opportunity to show ones character.

The IP I think should appeal to a wide range of people at an entry level and as stated it is not dogma, but again this is important to see where people are at in regards to how they observe, interpret and choose how and what to assimilate as knowledge. The Journal gives us that personal space to feel free to express ourselves a little more freely to explore this more openly then perhaps usually.

I do not see the program as a training pipeline of skill acquisition, to see it like that I think is misunderstanding the program, but there is not wrong or right answer as such - instead just a way to get more out of it IMO.

I would add a drug component to it. Add Some terrence mckenna to help understand that what we experience with emotion is drug fueled.

I think a reading of physics and the zero point field would be better than her book. Honestly I feel like the topics should make you feel like you know nothing. Perhaps if I hadnt known about campbell I would feel that way. Just my opinion.

I agree with Steamboat.

It isn't stated that it isn't dogma -anywhere-, so how are you supposed to know that? People don't respond to journals much, and without having made this thread, I would never have known that the Jedi temple doesn't officially endorse The Field.

I like the idea that critical thinking and other things that can help you discover your path be in there, rather than psuedo-scientific mumbo jumbo.