Lucas Film intel

I don't want to post the the worst letter I've ever had to write.

It would make things worse. It is not too late to forgive and forget so to inflame the folks involved ... mean ... pointless.

I made a hard choice that I could only describe in a poem of my own words and the best of my words are some that other people said first.

I stuck it in the thread because it involves a possible future lawsuit for $100,000.

MTFBWYA,

God Bless,

M (Br. John+)

It is possible that you are putting to much importance on this being a \"church\". Even though we may be incorporated as such, you must remember, that most (including most that would be in a jury/panel of judges) would concider our very use of the word Jedi, as a basis that this is merely a fan site. Personally, I don't think George, or anyone else would care, regardless of how popular we are, I'm not going to blind myself by thinking this place's importance is high enough to be immune to falling for this reason or any other. I assure you, that regardless of how many avenues have been covered to protect this place, there are others that are wide open. Also, human nature of any who would decide the fate of this place, must also be concidered. We are not, and will not be immune to everything that could take us down, its common sense to know we must be vulnerable somewhere. That place, however is yet to be exploited, thankfully. Rest assured, someone will find it, eventually and attempt to take over, or shut us down, I feel we could withstand such an attack, but just know, at some point, it will come.

The only way to secure peace, is to prepare for war.

DK

As I said, I'm a firm believer in CYA.

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

It is possible that you are putting to much importance on this being a \"church\". Even though we may be incorporated as such, you must remember, that most (including most that would be in a jury/panel of judges) would concider our very use of the word Jedi, as a basis that this is merely a fan site. Personally, I don't think George, or anyone else would care, regardless of how popular we are, I'm not going to blind myself by thinking this place's importance is high enough to be immune to falling for this reason or any other. I assure you, that regardless of how many avenues have been covered to protect this place, there are others that are wide open. Also, human nature of any who would decide the fate of this place, must also be concidered. We are not, and will not be immune to everything that could take us down, its common sense to know we must be vulnerable somewhere. That place, however is yet to be exploited, thankfully. Rest assured, someone will find it, eventually and attempt to take over, or shut us down, I feel we could withstand such an attack, but just know, at some point, it will come.

The only way to secure peace, is to prepare for war.

DK

You are 101% wrong about any court judging us as not being a church.

n 2002, a federal court struck down a Utah statute that barred the ordination of ministers online and online weddings. The court cited the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment, holding that states cannot treat Internet activities any differently than those engaged in by fax or by phone, or in person. Universal Life Church v. Utah, 2002 WL 87560 (D. Utah).

Read the first two paragraphs of the attached court decision.


A court cannot judge a church no matter how absurd it is. We have a published doctrine. We ordain ministers. If Scientology, which is a totally made up religion is a church we sure are,

You are 101% right about some vulnerability that we've not thought of.

Empires have fallen.

M (Br. John)



I

Hence...Seperation of Church and State.

The Government cannot intervene too much in matters of faith.

although...the government is not really what runs the world, now is it?

I wasn't trying to say they would say we are not a church. Just that they would say we are a fan site, we can be both technically. Just saying that the use of the word Jedi could still be contested, and that since there will be people on any jury their personal views will undoubtedly be part of any decision they made. All I'm saying is that we can be a church/temple which follows/teaches a religion (Jediism) which is based on Lucas's work, but created completely external from him. Which although shares the name of the characters in the movies, is the actual name of the religion, so would/should be protected. Its the calling this temple a Jedi temple and ourselves Jedi, that I think could be fought and possibly won by them. I have no doubt that we can remain doing what we are doing, however I feel that they could make us change or drop the Jedi name in the temple's title and/or our titles. Like I said though, I don't think they would care enough to bother with it.

DK

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

I wasn't trying to say they would say we are not a church. Just that they would say we are a fan site, we can be both technically. Just saying that the use of the word Jedi could still be contested, and that since there will be people on any jury their personal views will undoubtedly be part of any decision they made. All I'm saying is that we can be a church/temple which follows/teaches a religion (Jediism) which is based on Lucas's work, but created completely external from him. Which although shares the name of the characters in the movies, is the actual name of the religion, so would/should be protected. Its the calling this temple a Jedi temple and ourselves Jedi, that I think could be fought and possibly won by them. I have no doubt that we can remain doing what we are doing, however I feel that they could make us change or drop the Jedi name in the temple's title and/or our titles. Like I said though, I don't think they would care enough to bother with it.

DK

This is why I wish he would sue us. The publicity would be international. In a civil trial the jury does not get to decide everything. They judge questions of fact not questions law. Before there was ever a trial there would be motions for summary judgment which only the judge rules.

After the trial either side has the right to appeal, in our case to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.

The Supreme Court only accepts 1 out of 100 cases so it may or may not end up there.

We are new ground. This involves serious constitutional questions. We are NOT based on Lucas' movies but on the ideals he used in making the fictional force and the fictional jedi which are all ideas of other people.

We are based on the teachings of Joseph Campbell and Alan Watts besides the many religions and martial arts codes of history.

I'm glad you bring this up because these are good questions. Any case against us has no precedent; nothing like it has ever happened before. Jediism is open ground as is Jediest and there are people named Jedidiah.

Also his trademark is for fictional Jedi not real Jedi.

The legal questions in this are a dream. I'd love to see it go to a trial but I doubt Mr. Lucas would do it knowing that it would only be free hundreds of millions of dollars of free publicity for us and we would be backed by every pro First Amendment organization in the United States as well as many other churches.

Besides the Angel Gabriel appeared to me and told me that even though George Lucas does not know it; he was inspired by God to make these movies to start a new religious movement.

Nobody can question that statement as a matter of law. If they could then Muslim's and Mormon's could be declared as non-religions-non-churches.

I'm not arguing with you personally only pointing out legal issues that you may not know off the top of your head. I'm a paralegal not a lawyer but I did go to law school for two years and did take the top level legal research class taught by an appeals court judge and made an A. That does not mean I'm right but only that I've spent considerable time studying these issues and I know how to do legal research for appeals etc.

There are always loopholes. I could publish a book called Journey of a Christian Jedi as long as I stated that it was not a Lucas publication.

On thing we could do is sue ourselves (in a way). We could apply to a federal court for a declaratory judgment. hmmmmmm.

Blessed Be,

M (Br. John)

p.s. Wonderful discussion! Good Karma for you.

This is just and open thought, plus PMS'ing so please don't thinking I'm trying to say anything that has any legal precidence and not bashing anyone.

I use to run a fan site for an actress, still have it as a matter of fact and had to be very careful of what I said on my site. Disclaimers and all.... But.....

This is not a fan site, so in my mind with all the groups around the world in one way or another that claims to be a jedi religous site, whether it is a forum, fansite whatever, Lucas would have to look at the whole picture of what has been created over the last 30 years. Would his concern be religion? Or would he be more interested in profit making sites of Star Wars related stuff. Lucas is aware that Jedism has taken a hold in this world. He's not dumb, but I don't think the man, who has spent time with Joseph Campbell to see what is, can not realize what positive influence he has brought to this world.

Yeah, we talk of Star Wars here but not in a fashion like other sites.

Our community is an Incorporated Church that bases ourselves on Jedism... Not Star Wars itself.

We, for the most have a freedom here in the USA of Religion. As in other places as well...

DK, just out of curiosity..... is your beef more with the word CHURCH, RELIGION or what?. Cuz most of what I see is a distaste for the subject of the two words whether they are singular or together.... No offence, but I see a lot of your posts that reflect this.... You make points in your posts but I sense that just the words are something in your book that you do not like... Then again I can be wrong.... I'm PMS'ing so who knows.... I'm a woman... we do this...

If Lucas wanted to shut us down, take legal action, etc.... It would have started well before your posts I feel.... This Church has been around since December 25, 2005. Don't you think something would have been done by now!!!???

DK, just out of curiosity..... is your beef more with the word CHURCH, RELIGION or what?. Cuz most of what I see is a distaste for the subject of the two words whether they are singular or together.... No offence, but I see a lot of your posts that reflect this.... You make points in your posts but I sense that just the words are something in your book that you do not like... Then again I can be wrong.... I'm PMS'ing so who knows.... I'm a woman... we do this...

I'm glad you brought this up because religion is a loaded word.

We all have different ideas of the definition of religion.

In the beginning days of The Order we decided that our definition of religion is:

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

It's always nice to hear from you Master Patty. I pray you and yours are well.

Love,

John

I do not like the word church, atleast not to describe this place, but I'm not going to get into that here, its been done many times already in other threads. Church in general I don't mind, it is pretty much synonymous with corruption and greed in most views I've seen around me, which is one of the reasons I don't like as a description for this place. I also don't have any beef with the word religion, but like John said everyone has their own definition of that word, mine is more than likely different than most of yours. I do not feel that I follow a \"religion\" by normal definitions. Although by the definition that John put here as the Temple's definition, everything I do is basically a religion. All the way down to my concience devotion to shower every night. Simple as it is, by that definition, it works. Funny isn't it? I actually though wasn't arguing against either of these words or any of their many definitions here, only that we could be forced to change some things. But like you said, I'm sure he already knows we exist, and I don't think he cares, atleast not enough to try to do anything.

And don't worry, I've dealt with plenty of PMS'ing women, I know the ropes.

DK