Internet Hate

C. Thalmann wrote: Like I said, I do not agree with her actions. It not only puts children at risk, but it makes the trans community look worse than it already does.

*Side note: Are transgender people welcome here? Will I, as an example, be referred to as male, or should I look for another faith community?

Do you identify as male? If you do, then don't worry about it bro. If you don't then It won't be a problem sis

ren wrote: Don't do it because of your retarded sense of morals, do it for the children.

Don't these women have the right not to be flashed by male genitals in a women's locker room or have their children exposed to them. Regardless of whether you feel their morality is retarded or not, it is their choice. You can be relate with whatever gender you feel is right but do you have the right to impose your choice on those around you?

Imagine this another way...

Say I'm a smoker. I have the right to smoke. I walk into a crowded restaurant full of non-smokers. I proceed to light up a cigarette and blow smoke in people's faces. Is that OK because in my mind non-smokers are sticking to a "retarded sense of morals"?

Or...

I have a car and a license. I have the right to drive. I decide I want to drive on the sidewalk and mow people down. Is that OK because in my mind killing people is morally sensible?

I am male.

Just for the sake of personal privacy (and the potential for future people I know to know of my status and thus put me in danger, I'm editing the rest of my posts.

I believe there are transgendered individuals here, C. Thalmann.

We are a very accepting community.

It says you are a male directly below your name/picture.

Welcome to TotJO, btw. Let us know if we can help or answer any questions for you.

I'd recommend checking out the FAQ and Initiate Program under the "Studies" header.

Resticon wrote: I believe there are transgendered individuals here, C. Thalmann.

There are...

Male, female, transgender, straight, gay, cross dressers,....

Who'd I forget?

We don't discriminate...

All are welcome...

I think the issue of itself is health and developing a healthy individual to function within society. I do not want people to smoke around me because I have asthma. I do not need it to worsen and so my father and my grandmother both respect this. Like I tell my friends, you can smoke outside my car, but don't smoke in it, because I have to drive the car constantly and it irritates my lungs. It doesn't bother me people choose to smoke, that is -their- choice.

I think Resticon pointed out perfectly that there is a health issue for this involving the young girls. I am sure college girls do not give two poops unless they are, um whats the word? I dunno, but they deserve respect too if they do not want to see that. I mean political correctness is a pain, but in as that story goes, we all have so-called rights especially when it comes to health and beliefs. It is why I am a pro-choice though I don't like abortion for example.

Though certainly when I read the article first thought in my head was, "Why couldn't she change in the stall out of respect of others?" I find private parts distasteful to begin with :S don't care if sex feels good lol. I just don't like looking at them, but I am not going to raise hell when changing with other women, I usually go into a stall to change.

Jestor wrote: There are...

Male, female, transgender, straight, gay, cross dressers,....

Who'd I forget?

We don't discriminate...

All are welcome...

You forgot the cookies. They don't talk much but they are always welcome here! :laugh:

Resticon wrote:

ren wrote: Don't do it because of your retarded sense of morals, do it for the children.

Don't these women have the right not to be flashed by male genitals in a women's locker room or have their children exposed to them. Regardless of whether you feel their morality is retarded or not, it is their choice. You can be relate with whatever gender you feel is right but do you have the right to impose your choice on those around you?

Imagine this another way...

Say I'm a smoker. I have the right to smoke. I walk into a crowded restaurant full of non-smokers. I proceed to light up a cigarette and blow smoke in people's faces. Is that OK because in my mind non-smokers are sticking to a "retarded sense of morals"?

Or...

I have a car and a license. I have the right to drive. I decide I want to drive on the sidewalk and mow people down. Is that OK because in my mind killing people is morally sensible?

Changing rooms are public places where people can be legally naked. crowded restaurants are public places where people cannot smoke. Pavements cannot be legally driven on. people cannot be legally killed.

It's not a "men can drive on the men's roads" or "women can only smoke in women's restaurants".

I put it to you that those people are intolerant of human nature. Even suggesting simply being naked in presence of a child is sexually motivated.


Imagine this another way...

I don't want to see women on pavements or crowded restaurants. Therefore they should all wear a burka.

On a more serious note, the real problem in changing rooms are people who aren't there to get changed. Now That's uncool. I've had plenty of middle-aged women perving on me and my mates when I was a teenager.


Also, I've used same-sex communal changing rooms. And I rather liked everyone's attitude. A shame at the time I wasn't wise enough to appreciate the true value of it.

I'm kind of agreeing with Ren here. Our modern society (especially in the US and UK...and the middle east) is very sexually repressed. We are trained from a very young age, typically 3 or 4 to see shame in gender. We are taught by our parents, our friends, our families, and society in general to seek to defy nature by covering our bodies. We are taught that our bodies are shameful and embarrassing. And that is what causes psychological problems. Intolerance breeds only intolerance. Shame begets shame. We teach our children thus, because we were taught thus. It's just a vicious cycle, and if it is ever to end, someone has to stand up and end it. A favorite quote of mine from the "other 'Star' movies" is (and I believe it applies here): "If there is to be a brave, new world, Captain, Our generation will have the hardest time living in it." - Klingon Ambassador, Star Trek VI.

There are other wonderful points made on this thread that I also whole heartedly agree with, such as the idea that my rights end where yours begin. That's probably the biggest point of contention within myself over this. On the one hand, I absolutely believe that what has happened is only "wrong" because some outdated morality set that I never really subscribed to in the first place says it is. I believe that, to call our bodies shameful or teach that they are "to be hidden" is an affront to nature, and is thus unconscionable. However, I absolutely believe in each person's right to choose. That includes choosing what they wish to see in a public place. I firmly believe that this person's rights end where they begin to infringe upon the rights of others.

I think the only way I could reconcile both beliefs would be in the creation of (as was mentioned earlier) 3rd (and possibly 4th) "option" restrooms, locker rooms, and other places of acceptable public nudity. I think that that would provide a necessary "stepping stone" from the repressive society we are, to the evolved and human (in the Greek sense...anthropos...the "complete" human) society we should be striving to be.