Are the police our friends?

Kendalina (Sapadu) wrote: With all due respect to any police or armed forces members poking around, the dilemma at stake is thus: What stance do you take, as Jedi, when law enforcement are called in to enforce laws that are NOT moral or of justifiable origin?

That's when they go from being the democractic Republic to the dictatorial Empire, of course. So long as there is a seperate judicial system and free media, I'd recommend recording media to try and hold them to justice. If mechanisms of justice no longer exist then things have gotten really bad and I'd probably go all Red Dawn and head for the hills and conduct rebellious guerrila activities against the machinary of oppression.

Adder wrote: If mechanisms of justice no longer exist then things have gotten really bad and I'd probably go all Red Dawn and head for the hills and conduct rebellious guerrila activities against the machinary of oppression.

I'll be honest with you, that film is inspiring, but wouldn't ever really work nowadays lol.

But if you think things are getting really bad, then just move to a different country before it gets too bad. If you say 'I don't want to leave my family and friends' well then you have to weigh up which is going to be the worst, having oppression or being with your family.

Akkarin wrote:

But if you think things are getting really bad, then just move to a different country before it gets too bad.

I have heard this from many people. There is NO place on Earth you can run to. There is no country that is safe from evil. As long as the seven deadly (cardinal Sins -wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony) sins exist in the hearts of men and women, we are doomed to live with the evil that exudes from these sins.



Take heart, the Jedi exist and this is part of our mission, to combat this evil and make right or restore the balance of good and evil.

Here are several ideas to think about:

For every bad police officer there are a thousand good ones. We as a people learn from our mistakes. You cannot compare the 1910's, to the 1960's to the 2000's. You cannot compare The happenings in Alabama to that of Iowa or Illinois or Michigan or Colorado, etc. Evil is evil and people use the past too excite the present. Those who choose to forget the past are doomed to repeat it, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T LIVE IN THE PAST!!!

Yes the use of pepper spray in the Occupy movement can recall the use of fire hoses in Alabama, but that is because the lessons of the past were no learned by these individuals. Not every police officer used pepper spray in every occupy rally. Not every Occupy rally was peaceful and its protesters civil. As I have said in other postings, WE ARE ALL AT FAULT! Period!

Release the anger that holds you to the sins of the past. Unlearn what you have learned. You cannot change the mind of another, but you can change the mind within yourself. You can ask others to act upon something, but only you can act upon something. The past is the past and it cannot be changed. Unless you were there, how do you know what in history is true? The perspectives of the winner are who write history, not the truth.

Aggressive negotiations should be the last resort of a Jedi and I do not believe we have come to that yet. But working within the system of government, we can change things...VOTE OUT EVERY INCUMBENT! You can Occupy the parks and streets, just don't let them occupy the House, Senate, White House, or Judiciary. VOTE OUT EVERY INCUMBENT!!

Sapadu wrote: 'Right -- Attention, all good members of the Jedi Temple! With all due respect to any police or armed forces members poking around, the dilemma at stake is thus: What stance do you take, as Jedi, when law enforcement are called in to enforce laws that are NOT moral or of justifiable origin? Examples include driving-while-black laws -- yes, Virginia, they still exist -- the cases of police using pepper spray on non-violent protestors during the Occupy protests, or in other cases that we find in history when police forces were used as silencing tactics, such as the Selma-to-Montgomery march in 1963 or the suffragists of 1917.'

Before reading the rest note that im from the Netherlands and the situation here is TOTALLY different from the U.S. one.

I don't think this is a particulair dilemma just for police officers. Also for bankers and prolly many other professions. What is your stance on giving mortgages to people while knowing they'll won't be able to repay it and which will drown them in debts in the future?

In my opinion the awnser to these matters is NOT to simply withdraw from the process.
'I dont agree with removing those protestors using violence or peper spray so I'll withdraw myself from this happening'

Like Phortis Nespin said, there are a 1000 good cops (if not more) for every 'evil' one.
Imagin' all them good cops withdrawing from the process cause they dont agree with it, leaving just the bad ones around.

The greatest act of evil is an act of inactivity against evil.

So IMHO as a (jedi) police officer, when you encounter anything you dont agree with, get involved and try to contain the 'evil' as much as you can. The good cops need to keep the bad ones more or less in line, or at least try to do so.

Well...As a service member, it's a tad more complicated than black and white. When you serve in a law enforcing capacity, you swear an oath to serve and obey and protect. Key word.. OBEY. It comes at GREAT personal grief and/or harm to speak out against things you KNOW are just wrong. I've done so serveral times and each time I did was punished greatly for not obeying all orders and directives given to me. And what most people don't see or know, is that when you are a whistle blower of sorts....they ruin your life. Had you NOT sworn that oath, no harm no foul. But you raised your hand. YOU MADE THE CHOICE to do so (in America at least, i can't speak for other countries becuase this is not always the case).

When you serve in these capacities, you are NO LONGER your own person. You have to play by a different set of rules, and they aren't always fair and kind. I am irritated at this whole Bradley Manning situation for JUST that reason. There is nothing wrong with what he did so to speak. But since he swore an oath, he falls under those new rules and needs to be judged according to them. What he did by American military standards was treason, and it needs to be treated as such. Without that brainless and blind obideince, we would have no police, no military, no force of protection and no one to willingly give their lives so you don't have to. Most people who haven't been put into these positions, would say they would refuse orders and just say no...but you've never experienced the life ruining that happens afterwards. They CAN and they WILL take everything, including your life from you. You tell me...who is the better helper? The dead service member? or the one who lives everyday to try little by little to make the system a bit less corrupt.

Phortis Nespin wrote: I have heard this from many people. There is NO place on Earth you can run to. There is no country that is safe from evil. As long as the seven deadly (cardinal Sins -wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony) sins exist in the hearts of men and women, we are doomed to live with the evil that exudes from these sins.

Then move to the least worst place

OBEY. It comes at GREAT personal grief and/or harm to speak out against things you KNOW are just wrong. I've done so serveral times and each time I did was punished greatly for not obeying all orders and directives given to me

That is probably the worst part of all of it. The 'OBEY' sort of attitude is what would probably make people uneasy about any form of government official. That's ignoring the few bad apples that are already present in any profession.

The best cure would be to just have much Much greater transparency and that would lead to much greater accountability. If someone notices the a police officer doing something wrong, then they should be punished so that the public is reassured that something is done if someone breaks the rules.

Most things aren't nearly as transparent as they should be, and that is most likely no coincidence. People breaking the law will always be against greater transparency...