Occupy Wallstreet Movement

[url=http://http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct2=us%2F0_0_s_0_0_t&bvm=grid&topic=blended&usg=AFQjCNH6LqDtHB9N1wfIzESbpQg90WZjDg&did=48c1b5913e1e7953&sig2=YxbsA-tHW7zFQR73aFgOyw&cid=8797756879308&ei=XwSJTvjAB4HuMtqYAQ&rt=HOMEPAGE&vm=STANDARD&authuser=0&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052970204612504576607303128523710.html%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj]Occupy Wall Street Protests Spread[/url]

I've been following the news a bit lately and this seems to actually be picking up steam a bit with movements beginning in more cities of america each day... I'm not sure to hopeful, inspired, or worried as it is a good message and the inevitable outcome of a government and economy with so many problems...

Anyways, I'm kind of curious to other's thoughts on the matter and lets please keep it civilized

Minorities can appear to represent majorities through organization. I support democracy, but as population densities increase and transport improves it will be easier to generate disproportional representations of democracy. In the past a big crowd meant most people must be on board with it, but not so much now.

In my opinion they have no right to interfere with other people trying to make a living... it runs the risk of creating personal conflict between locals and protestors. Protest should be done to raise awareness and to bring issues into peoples minds without causing stoppages to normal life.

I agree with your view of protests Adder.

On another hand, if it degenerated into a bank burning riot, I think you'd get a very proportionate representation of what people who aren't rioting really want.

Link not working for me...

***Double Post***

I don't live far from the occupation. I'll try and post some live pics later tonight. IT's getting a little nasty to tell the truth. In a week or so if this drags on the police are going to get ugly. Shame, those kids, while well meaning, are protesting the wrong thing in the wrong place. Governments like ours are masters at getting activists to expand great amounts of energy issues that fall short of the mark, or in this case the truth.

'..Um... Mama du Author...' Benedict piped up from the chair. Jack was skimming an article from CNN.com as Benedict read the forum, '...Do these people... really know what the protest is about? Their comments all seem... awfully vague...'

"Maybe they're really talking about the way some of the protests are progressing." Jack shrugged, looking rather like the CMC, "According to the protestors, the march is about the widening gap between the poor and the rich and all of the effects its had in our country -- economically, socially, politically, culturally, all of them. And, let's be honest about the facts: The top 1 percent of population in the country -- and that's rounding to whole numbers, too -- control 34.6 percent of our nation's wealth. The next level of wealth is only ten percent of the nation and they control 38.5 percent. And the rest, the overwhelming majority of Americans, only get the remaining 26.9 percent, according to reports on MotherJones.com and BusinessInsider.com And it shows in many other ways. Stang, I could write a whole dissertation on this, the argument is so complicated and multi-faceted."

"Now, in terms of the marches... well, if there've been arrests, then chances are that these protests are overstepping the boundaries of 'nonviolent demonstration'. And that's NOT good."

Benedict stared, wide-eyed, at the Author before she finally quieted down.

'You sound an awful lot like a fanatic, the way you were ranting all those facts a moment ago.'

"I'd rather sound like a fanatic and -- I'll even admit it, before anyone else goes pointing fingers -- a Socialist, rather than not do my research and have it show. The only way things are going to improve in this country is if we arm ourselves with facts, then face them, head on. If I was dying of lung cancer because I smoked a pack a day, I'd face it rather than try to look for studies that say smoking is GOOD for you. Same thing, here."

Benedict considered this, then shrugged and turned on Angry Birds.

See now I won't argue your facts, their just that. But where does it say in the Constitution that equal rights equate to equal results? I don't have a lot of money at all. I don't blame rich people for it. If I want to make a lot of money maybe I should reeducate myself and then work really hard instead of trying to have the government step in and "redistribute" the money that other people earned so i can feel more fulfilled without having to put the effort in. The gap in wealth isn't widening because rich people are greedy. ALL people are greedy, it's a part of the darker aspect of human nature. Requiring that people have the money they've earned taken by force to give to people that haven't earned it is just as bad as the people that hoard the money in the first place. It's too sides of the same greedy coin.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for helping the poor, but I'm not for forcing people to help the poor and keeping them in a perpetual state of poverty as has been the case in this country for the past 50 yrs or so. I think it's great that these people are off of the couch and standing up for what they believe, but in the end it's all misguided. IT's misguided because it wants a socialist model of living that has never worked in history, just ask the EU. It fails to take in to account the most important part of any mode of governance, Human nature. That's why socialism inevitably fails. It's human nature that once someone rates power they'll want more. And each successive leader will want more as their pallet becomes used to the flavor of control. That's why America worked so well in the beginning, it was a Democratic Republic. Everyone was held to the letter of law. As social programs were in acted in this country we moved from that model to something that's just about socialist. Granted it's been a slow move, but a move none the less. So instead of people fighting against the bankers, or the politicians, or the whatever, how about they start to fight the one thing that undoes every good thing man has ever invented, they should look in the mirror and protest themselves.

That's just my 2¢ anyway so please take it with a generous helping of salt.

More money can make more money then less money can make, so those with more will be able to make more. The Fibonacci sequance was created based on growth in a rabbit population and supported the reality that the more rabbits you had the more rabbits you'd end up with.

It so happens that Fibonacci and Golden Ratio logarithmic spirals closely match and both of which resemble growth patterns throughout nature. I think the whole market system is actually designed to take advantage of maximizing compounding growth so its not unlikely that a wealth distribution chart might end up looking more like an exponential curve.

I'm not even sure its a discussion without an alternative proposal. Wealth is the market which gives everyone jobs and delivers services, and they pay huge amounts of tax to keep the government running, albeit at a lower percentage but the totals are still larger. Without peaks of high wealth you will not have breadth of moderate wealth. I think the real problem is education and baseline poverty which exists around the world but this is probably more a government concern as it seems to fall within welfare.

I think an interesting paradox is that the protests are probably more about a fall in middle class standards of living, which in turn is also the worry of the wealthy because slowdowns mean less wealth. Since 1950 the western world has been gradually becoming intoxicated with commercialism, this in turn has fuelled the wealth growth. So to me it sounds like they are protesting against taxation more then corporate wealth, in which case they should be in DC.

[Note: all the below arguments are personal views and not the views of the temple]
[Later note... just because I post my view, doesn't mean I don't enjoy debating and seeing other views]
I agree that they need to be targeting the government, as the businesses that abuse the broken system are only part of the problem.

The part that I'm a bit caught up in is the protesting of trickle economics, wealthy who succeed should be allowed to enjoy their wealth, but they should be taxed on a fair level, and those rich people who fail miserably should NOT be bailed out by the government repeatedly... look at the bank of america situation... the US gov bails them out then BoA turn around and Illegally forecloses thousands of homes. and that's only one of many instances... the government and business being separated, and many other items... last I heard there was a group begging to form in DC as well.

Being in the 30,000 a year with two jobs and $70,000 in student loans range myself, I see a problem having 2 associates and being in this situation... if the government can wipe away trillions of debt from rich folks... why not help those who are working hard, getting education and trying to work for a living...

But cutting education, and public services to give big businesses large write offs, bail outs, and such seems to make sense to someone...

These protests don't begin for no reason, and while it may be the unemployed, veterans, and youth that are the front line... I'm sure there are a fair share of us working full time with worthless degrees who are supporting this as well

Anyways, that's my inflated pair of copper pieces

@ren - shall we prepare some molotovs