the nature of the \"darkside\"
20 Jan 2010 18:03 #28116
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
point of order....
cannot use christian-protestant.....
correct to
catholic-protestant
the protestant reformation was started by a monk by the name of Martin Luther, (hence the Lutheran Church) and it is was sparked the different denominations of Christianity,
such as the Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Wesleyans, so on and so forth...any christian denomination other than catholic is protestant. And any that believe that the events of Acts chapter two also occur today (being slain in the spirit, speaking in tongues, etc.)are further classified as Pentacostals. Not trying to cause any further confusion but yes it is Human nature to classify and re-classify, also naturally to divide.
cannot use christian-protestant.....
correct to
catholic-protestant
the protestant reformation was started by a monk by the name of Martin Luther, (hence the Lutheran Church) and it is was sparked the different denominations of Christianity,
such as the Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Wesleyans, so on and so forth...any christian denomination other than catholic is protestant. And any that believe that the events of Acts chapter two also occur today (being slain in the spirit, speaking in tongues, etc.)are further classified as Pentacostals. Not trying to cause any further confusion but yes it is Human nature to classify and re-classify, also naturally to divide.
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20 Jan 2010 18:29 #28117
by Jon
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Replied by Jon on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
Yes, XMortis you have a point. I stand corrected. Thank you.
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
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20 Jan 2010 20:35 #28121
by Garm
Replied by Garm on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
Buddhist - Nudist...? !! man, no wonder I've scared away sooo many padawans !!!!!!!!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
But really...
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
But really...

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20 Jan 2010 20:39 #28123
by Jon
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Replied by Jon on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
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20 Jan 2010 21:39 #28129
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
For someone like me at least my own opinion I have diversed the \"darkside\" into 2 categories. Dark and Evil. I consider myself to be Dark both of my own choosing and by the makings of others. Does that mean I am going to go on a murder spree, robbing spree, or take out anyone who gets in my way, no. To me that is Evil. I prefer the darker attributes because it allows me to think, process, and sometimes act clearer than \"light\".
Just because a person chooses Darkness doesn't make them evil or bad, perhaps there is an element that others don't see that that person does. To understand the Force, one must understand themselves and others, that is where the light and dark personifactions derive. Humanity.
Just because a person chooses Darkness doesn't make them evil or bad, perhaps there is an element that others don't see that that person does. To understand the Force, one must understand themselves and others, that is where the light and dark personifactions derive. Humanity.
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20 Jan 2010 21:48 #28130
by Br. John
Founder of The Order
Replied by Br. John on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
I have some flowering plants that must stay if full shade and mushrooms, some with great healing and psychic powers, can only fruit at night.
Dark does not mean evil.
Dark does not mean evil.
Founder of The Order
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20 Jan 2010 22:10 #28131
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
based on my understanding, in the jedi mythology, dark jedi are those that are willing to use all aspects of the force. they use force lightening and grip. they accept that death is necessary. that killing an opponent is sometimes necessary and kinder than cutting off his hand or leg.
based on my knowledge and view, sith are \"evil\". they seek order through domination. it seems there is only one way or the \"dead\" way.
i agree - dark = light = dark. we need them both to understand the full spectrum of what is referred to as the force.
evil is also a perspective. at the same time, the perspective i have is similar to tiamat's. killing in defense or to balance the force is one thing. going on a killing spree just because a person is upset or lost their job - that is childish, reactive and evil.
the force is the force and we can perceive many aspects of it.
based on my knowledge and view, sith are \"evil\". they seek order through domination. it seems there is only one way or the \"dead\" way.
i agree - dark = light = dark. we need them both to understand the full spectrum of what is referred to as the force.
evil is also a perspective. at the same time, the perspective i have is similar to tiamat's. killing in defense or to balance the force is one thing. going on a killing spree just because a person is upset or lost their job - that is childish, reactive and evil.
the force is the force and we can perceive many aspects of it.
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- Zanthan Storm
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20 Jan 2010 22:19 #28133
by Zanthan Storm
Zanthan Storm
AKA Rev. Michael Ziskovsky OCP D.Div.
Master Knight of Jediism
Founder of Roseville, MN Chapter of TOTJO
Current Apprentice: None
Past Master: GM Neaj Pa Bol
Past Apprentices: Sr. Knight Kira, Knight Myos, Doriann, Knight The Coyote
"Let no one thing control your life, seek to be complete and at peace."
Replied by Zanthan Storm on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
I agree with both Br. John and Master Taimat. To add my own the \"Darkside\" is a personal choice and one sometimes we do not consciously make at times.
Dark does not mean evil.
Soldiers. Warriors could be argued are trained in what are considered \"dark\" techniques. Trained to kill. However, we hold them as heroes.
We are human beings. I have said it before and I will again. The Force is grey by definition. It is neither and both. It is the user who desides what they use and why. If you use the arts/knowledge/etc you learn for evil that is my definition of darkside. We all have, don't try to deny it. The difference between a good and bad person is the same between a good or bad person.
So my small rant aside here is the point. Nature of the Force is the nature of life. Giving us the choice to do great or evil things.
Dark does not mean evil.
Soldiers. Warriors could be argued are trained in what are considered \"dark\" techniques. Trained to kill. However, we hold them as heroes.
We are human beings. I have said it before and I will again. The Force is grey by definition. It is neither and both. It is the user who desides what they use and why. If you use the arts/knowledge/etc you learn for evil that is my definition of darkside. We all have, don't try to deny it. The difference between a good and bad person is the same between a good or bad person.
So my small rant aside here is the point. Nature of the Force is the nature of life. Giving us the choice to do great or evil things.
Zanthan Storm
AKA Rev. Michael Ziskovsky OCP D.Div.
Master Knight of Jediism
Founder of Roseville, MN Chapter of TOTJO
Current Apprentice: None
Past Master: GM Neaj Pa Bol
Past Apprentices: Sr. Knight Kira, Knight Myos, Doriann, Knight The Coyote
"Let no one thing control your life, seek to be complete and at peace."
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21 Jan 2010 05:11 #28148
by RyuJin
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
it's nice to see so many others share the same view as me....i've seen some that were adamant about the division and refused to consider that there is a gray area that is rather large.
being ex-military i know that there are many things done that would be considered \"dark\" by some, yet to me they served a higher purpose and were necessary.
being ex-military i know that there are many things done that would be considered \"dark\" by some, yet to me they served a higher purpose and were necessary.
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
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21 Jan 2010 18:58 #28160
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
Power gives one focus. The Dark Side gives power. Those who operate chiefly on the Dark Side are affected by power-lust, as power is addictive.
Thus, using the Dark Side powers doesn't make one evil, any more than someone who uses the Light Side powers makes someone good. What makes a person good or evil is the intent behind what they do: are they seeking personal gain, or are they doing what they do because it's the correct decision in the situation? Sometimes it can be both, but that's more the exception than the rule.
If your intent is selfless, you are generally considered good; if your intent is selfish, you are generally considered evil. When Bill Gates donates a billion dollars a year education and humanitarian relief, people don't stop calling him selfish or evil... I mean, really: is it just a PR trick to try to be a better person than the money-hungry monopoly he helped to create, or is he really trying to do good things with his money?
The issue is always one of intent, not of the tools used. But if one uses only the tools of the Dark Side, then their aims may be corrupted. It's difficult to tell what the aims are without long-standing looks at the way that people behave. If their aims are generally benevolent, then their results will show it. To this end, these people can be said to be \"good people\".
But the Dark Side of the Force is indeed seductive. It is attractive, mysterious, and alluring. It is easy. It is simple. And in addition, it is destructive. These all have their place in the grand scheme of things, but they can be easily misused for evil purposes... and when only these tactics are used, then a person can be said to be an \"evil person\".
Both of these are judgment calls. Both of these are valid ways to accomplish one's goals. But great care must be taken, because the Dark Side's allure and temptation are greater than the Light Side's, because the Light Side tends to be unpleasant where certain things are concerned.
This is also where attachment comes in. Attachment is dangerous, because it causes us to be able to have our actions forced by other people. We cannot be simultaneously in control of ourselves and out of control. But we can be in control of ourselves and under the direction of other people. But again, our attachment to things and people--our greed for recognition and ownership--is the primary means of our undoing.
I stand by what I believe (just as I'm sure that others are standing by what they believe). The issue with trying to define what is 'Light' versus what is 'Dark' is a matter of judgment and discernment. But in general, things which are creative and life-promoting are 'Light' because they help us survive (and as every Darwinist knows, those who have a focus on survival tend to be better survivors, and so because of this we have more people with this ethic than not); while things which are destructive and which serve to detract from survival are 'Dark' because they promote only the survival of the individual at the cost of the rest of the species (again with the Darwinism).
I can come up with fancy explanations until I'm blue from lack of breath, but the result is the same: either I convince you, or I don't. And if I don't, then very little is likely to do so. Yet I debate because my experience with the ethic I've chosen has worked to explain a great many things which I wouldn't be able to understand differently.
Thus, using the Dark Side powers doesn't make one evil, any more than someone who uses the Light Side powers makes someone good. What makes a person good or evil is the intent behind what they do: are they seeking personal gain, or are they doing what they do because it's the correct decision in the situation? Sometimes it can be both, but that's more the exception than the rule.
If your intent is selfless, you are generally considered good; if your intent is selfish, you are generally considered evil. When Bill Gates donates a billion dollars a year education and humanitarian relief, people don't stop calling him selfish or evil... I mean, really: is it just a PR trick to try to be a better person than the money-hungry monopoly he helped to create, or is he really trying to do good things with his money?
The issue is always one of intent, not of the tools used. But if one uses only the tools of the Dark Side, then their aims may be corrupted. It's difficult to tell what the aims are without long-standing looks at the way that people behave. If their aims are generally benevolent, then their results will show it. To this end, these people can be said to be \"good people\".
But the Dark Side of the Force is indeed seductive. It is attractive, mysterious, and alluring. It is easy. It is simple. And in addition, it is destructive. These all have their place in the grand scheme of things, but they can be easily misused for evil purposes... and when only these tactics are used, then a person can be said to be an \"evil person\".
Both of these are judgment calls. Both of these are valid ways to accomplish one's goals. But great care must be taken, because the Dark Side's allure and temptation are greater than the Light Side's, because the Light Side tends to be unpleasant where certain things are concerned.
This is also where attachment comes in. Attachment is dangerous, because it causes us to be able to have our actions forced by other people. We cannot be simultaneously in control of ourselves and out of control. But we can be in control of ourselves and under the direction of other people. But again, our attachment to things and people--our greed for recognition and ownership--is the primary means of our undoing.
I stand by what I believe (just as I'm sure that others are standing by what they believe). The issue with trying to define what is 'Light' versus what is 'Dark' is a matter of judgment and discernment. But in general, things which are creative and life-promoting are 'Light' because they help us survive (and as every Darwinist knows, those who have a focus on survival tend to be better survivors, and so because of this we have more people with this ethic than not); while things which are destructive and which serve to detract from survival are 'Dark' because they promote only the survival of the individual at the cost of the rest of the species (again with the Darwinism).
I can come up with fancy explanations until I'm blue from lack of breath, but the result is the same: either I convince you, or I don't. And if I don't, then very little is likely to do so. Yet I debate because my experience with the ethic I've chosen has worked to explain a great many things which I wouldn't be able to understand differently.
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