the nature of the \"darkside\"

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14 years 3 months ago #28078 by
I believe the Force is living but cannot do anything for itself unless it's reactive. Only with proper manipulation or focus of the Force can it become sentient. I think it still takes an outside force to make it do something other than \"be\".

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14 years 3 months ago #28080 by RyuJin
it seems that bael sort of sees the force as a quadrapalegic in a wheel chair, without a helper...alive yet unable to move on it's own....

as to me i feel that it is sentient...it has a will but it makes its will known to certain individuals that can act on it...everything happens for a reason, we don't always know why and we don't always find out why...

i suppose you could say it uses us as much as we use it

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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14 years 3 months ago #28082 by
I like the analogy, lol. But remember a quadraplegic is sentient. I think the Force is beyond needing a will. I think it lets us use \"it\" when it wants to, and refuses to work for us when \"it\" doesn't. By doing this it keeps the balance that is required for everything to exist.

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14 years 3 months ago #28086 by
i like this discourse.

i agree that the force or as i refer to it, \"the great divine it\" is in general beyond our comprehension and our control. we simply channel it through our confined bodies. our bodies are conduit for it, they are it - we are all one. yet, humans are manifestations of its consciousness. we think, therefor are are. our thinking allows us to analysis and critic things. in doing so we construct concepts that our limited perception can understand. we state there is a dark and light side to the force. opposition is easy to comprehend. relativity is difficult.

i believe in jedi. and i believe in harmony. harmony is stepping beyond duelism and into relativism and beyond. simply accepting things as they are. basing judgements and actions on our own code and morality without projecting that onto an indescribable things - the force.

we like to personify things - at times even the force - however it is the force that animates us. and humans - if permitted to think dualistically - create the light and the dark side for our own grounding and safety.

i admit, i enjoy simply surrendering to the service of the thing called the force - though that service might require things my human self does not understand or like. like watching a lion eating a zebra.

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14 years 3 months ago #28088 by
How i visualize and concept the Force helps me understand it. The way you do and everyone else will be different since we all think differently.

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14 years 3 months ago #28090 by Jon
Is there such a thing as a DARK side? Or is it merely a projection of our own circumstance?

\"There is nothing very odd about lambs disliking birds of prey, but this is no reason for holding it against large birds of prey that they carry off lambs. And when the lambs whisper among themselves, \"These birds of prey are evil, and does this not give us a right to say that whatever is the opposite of a bird of prey must be good?\" there is nothing intrinsically wrong with such an argument - though the birds of prey will look somewhat quizzically and say, \"We have nothing against these good lambs; in fact, we love them; nothing tastes better than a tender lamb.\"

Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900

What we take to be dark or light depends very much on our biological nature—and different biological natures dictate different moral codes. Just as the citation speaks for the animals so does this no less apply to the human race. The divide between strong and weak, assertive and timid, runs straight through the human species. The key question to ask about morality is not: Is such and such a value universally and intrinsically good? Rather the question is: What kind of person finds this value to be valuable?

The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.

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14 years 3 months ago #28092 by RyuJin
love the nietszche quote....exactly light and dark is simply a matter of perspective, and perspective is relative to our biology, our culture, our psyche, our own moral views which were often developed as children observing our peers...

it's human nature to divide and categorize...

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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14 years 3 months ago #28109 by
Okay, so... to compare it with something else which is living, it's basically the same as an amoeba or slime mold...?

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14 years 3 months ago - 14 years 3 months ago #28114 by Jon
Replied by Jon on topic Re:the nature of the
RyuJin wrote:

love the nietszche quote....exactly light and dark is simply a matter of perspective, and perspective is relative to our biology, our culture, our psyche, our own moral views which were often developed as children observing our peers...

it's human nature to divide and categorize...


1. The Universe was created and continues to be created every second. (The BIG BANG was just the SOUND of the BIG THOUGHT being articulated by THE BIG THINKER.) We can argue about that.

2. We are all Human Beings

3. We are all a part of creation not apart from creation

That's the net, net of the net.

Now, enter the knowledge of good and evil and the next thing you know we human beings start dividing things.

It's true whether we're talking Adam or Atom

Let's divide by gender

Adam - Eve

Man - Woman

Boar - Sow

Buck - Doe

Hansel - Gretyl

Let's divide by sexual preferences

Hetero - Homo

Asexual - Bi

Plain - Kinky

Whipped cream - Body Butter

Milk Chocolate - Dark Chocolate

Mounds - Almond Joy (Almond Joy has nuts...Mounds has mounds)

French Maid - Sister Carolyn

Let's divide by color

Black - White -

Red - Yellow

Chartreuse - Magenta

Tan - Pale

Freckled - Tawny

Fair - Olive

Wan - Swarthy

Let's divide by hair color

Blondes - Brunettes

Redheads - Jet Black

Curly - Moe

Straight - Frizzy

Let's divide by weight

Thin - Fat

6-pack ABs - Beer Belly Kegger

Under 100 Lbs - Over 100 Lbs

Let's divide by clan or tribe or age or possessions

My family - Her family

My generation - Their Generation

Younger generation - Older generation

Her family traditions - My family traditions

My Towel - Her Towel

Her Money - Our Money

Let's divide by geography

East - West

North - South

LA - SFO

City - County

Blue state - Red state

Let's divide by universe concept

God - God Particle

Intelligent Design - Chaos

Gaia - YHWH

Darwin - Mendel

Rumi - Bishop Sheen

We humans like to slice and dice things down to pretty fine levels.

NOTE: In the case of VOLPI proscuitto thin-sliced with melon is a very very good thing. But when it comes to Kenrick Thuringer...KCE and I agree that it's thick does the trick!

This is true of many things.

Let's divide by attitude

Positive- Negative

Optimist - Pessimist

Happy - Depressed

Likes - Dislikes

Egg Lover - Egg Hater

National League - American League

Cards - Cubs

Red wine - White wine

French Champagne - California Champagne

Asti - Nasti

Lager - Pilsner

IPA - Stout

Lexus - BMW

Ford - Chivvy (Southside for Chevy)

Yin - Yang

Bob - Bing

Let's divide by earthly lot in life

Brain surgeon - homeless person

Clydesdale - dung beetle (it's a dirty job but without the dung beetle we'd be up to our eyeballs in Horse Puckey)

Land owner - peon

Rich - Poor

Haves - Have nots

Lottery Winner - Sorry Not A Winner

Let's divide by God-concept

Pick any God-concept you like.

Humans will divide it, label it and categorize it into a very specific belief system and get some other Human Beings to sign up to the TRUE creed...or else!

Southern Baptist- Northern Baptist (?)

Catholic - Protestant

Moslem - Jew

Shia - Sunni

Reformed - Hassidic

Buddhist - Nudist

Taoist - Confuscionist

Episcopalian - Unitarian

Let's divide by moral ethos

Right - Wrong

We're Right - They're Wrong

Commandment - Suggestion

Reward - Punishment

Heaven - Hell

Purgatory - Limbo

Vice - Virtue

Pop Quiz for my Catholic buddies:

Is Eating Meat On Friday A Sin?

YES -NO- NOT ANYMORE - NOT IF YOU OWN FRANDEKA's or BOB's FISH STORE

So?:

Where does all this Human DIVISIVENESS get us?

Answer: It gets us right to where we are today.


The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Last edit: 14 years 3 months ago by Jon.

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14 years 3 months ago #28115 by RyuJin
:laugh: some of those were pretty good (her money - our money, instead of her money - his money)

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J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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