- Posts: 5905
the nature of the \"darkside\"
19 Jan 2010 22:44 #28078
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
I believe the Force is living but cannot do anything for itself unless it's reactive. Only with proper manipulation or focus of the Force can it become sentient. I think it still takes an outside force to make it do something other than \"be\".
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19 Jan 2010 23:23 #28080
by RyuJin
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
it seems that bael sort of sees the force as a quadrapalegic in a wheel chair, without a helper...alive yet unable to move on it's own....
as to me i feel that it is sentient...it has a will but it makes its will known to certain individuals that can act on it...everything happens for a reason, we don't always know why and we don't always find out why...
i suppose you could say it uses us as much as we use it
as to me i feel that it is sentient...it has a will but it makes its will known to certain individuals that can act on it...everything happens for a reason, we don't always know why and we don't always find out why...
i suppose you could say it uses us as much as we use it
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Please Log in to join the conversation.
19 Jan 2010 23:33 #28082
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
I like the analogy, lol. But remember a quadraplegic is sentient. I think the Force is beyond needing a will. I think it lets us use \"it\" when it wants to, and refuses to work for us when \"it\" doesn't. By doing this it keeps the balance that is required for everything to exist.
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20 Jan 2010 00:42 #28086
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
i like this discourse.
i agree that the force or as i refer to it, \"the great divine it\" is in general beyond our comprehension and our control. we simply channel it through our confined bodies. our bodies are conduit for it, they are it - we are all one. yet, humans are manifestations of its consciousness. we think, therefor are are. our thinking allows us to analysis and critic things. in doing so we construct concepts that our limited perception can understand. we state there is a dark and light side to the force. opposition is easy to comprehend. relativity is difficult.
i believe in jedi. and i believe in harmony. harmony is stepping beyond duelism and into relativism and beyond. simply accepting things as they are. basing judgements and actions on our own code and morality without projecting that onto an indescribable things - the force.
we like to personify things - at times even the force - however it is the force that animates us. and humans - if permitted to think dualistically - create the light and the dark side for our own grounding and safety.
i admit, i enjoy simply surrendering to the service of the thing called the force - though that service might require things my human self does not understand or like. like watching a lion eating a zebra.
i agree that the force or as i refer to it, \"the great divine it\" is in general beyond our comprehension and our control. we simply channel it through our confined bodies. our bodies are conduit for it, they are it - we are all one. yet, humans are manifestations of its consciousness. we think, therefor are are. our thinking allows us to analysis and critic things. in doing so we construct concepts that our limited perception can understand. we state there is a dark and light side to the force. opposition is easy to comprehend. relativity is difficult.
i believe in jedi. and i believe in harmony. harmony is stepping beyond duelism and into relativism and beyond. simply accepting things as they are. basing judgements and actions on our own code and morality without projecting that onto an indescribable things - the force.
we like to personify things - at times even the force - however it is the force that animates us. and humans - if permitted to think dualistically - create the light and the dark side for our own grounding and safety.
i admit, i enjoy simply surrendering to the service of the thing called the force - though that service might require things my human self does not understand or like. like watching a lion eating a zebra.
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20 Jan 2010 03:24 #28088
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
How i visualize and concept the Force helps me understand it. The way you do and everyone else will be different since we all think differently.
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20 Jan 2010 04:09 #28090
by Jon
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Replied by Jon on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
Is there such a thing as a DARK side? Or is it merely a projection of our own circumstance?
\"There is nothing very odd about lambs disliking birds of prey, but this is no reason for holding it against large birds of prey that they carry off lambs. And when the lambs whisper among themselves, \"These birds of prey are evil, and does this not give us a right to say that whatever is the opposite of a bird of prey must be good?\" there is nothing intrinsically wrong with such an argument - though the birds of prey will look somewhat quizzically and say, \"We have nothing against these good lambs; in fact, we love them; nothing tastes better than a tender lamb.\"
Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900
What we take to be dark or light depends very much on our biological nature—and different biological natures dictate different moral codes. Just as the citation speaks for the animals so does this no less apply to the human race. The divide between strong and weak, assertive and timid, runs straight through the human species. The key question to ask about morality is not: Is such and such a value universally and intrinsically good? Rather the question is: What kind of person finds this value to be valuable?
\"There is nothing very odd about lambs disliking birds of prey, but this is no reason for holding it against large birds of prey that they carry off lambs. And when the lambs whisper among themselves, \"These birds of prey are evil, and does this not give us a right to say that whatever is the opposite of a bird of prey must be good?\" there is nothing intrinsically wrong with such an argument - though the birds of prey will look somewhat quizzically and say, \"We have nothing against these good lambs; in fact, we love them; nothing tastes better than a tender lamb.\"
Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900
What we take to be dark or light depends very much on our biological nature—and different biological natures dictate different moral codes. Just as the citation speaks for the animals so does this no less apply to the human race. The divide between strong and weak, assertive and timid, runs straight through the human species. The key question to ask about morality is not: Is such and such a value universally and intrinsically good? Rather the question is: What kind of person finds this value to be valuable?
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
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- Posts: 5905
20 Jan 2010 05:15 #28092
by RyuJin
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
love the nietszche quote....exactly light and dark is simply a matter of perspective, and perspective is relative to our biology, our culture, our psyche, our own moral views which were often developed as children observing our peers...
it's human nature to divide and categorize...
it's human nature to divide and categorize...
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Please Log in to join the conversation.
20 Jan 2010 16:44 #28109
by
Replied by on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
Okay, so... to compare it with something else which is living, it's basically the same as an amoeba or slime mold...?
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20 Jan 2010 17:28 - 20 Jan 2010 19:23 #28114
by Jon
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Replied by Jon on topic Re:the nature of the
RyuJin wrote:
1. The Universe was created and continues to be created every second. (The BIG BANG was just the SOUND of the BIG THOUGHT being articulated by THE BIG THINKER.) We can argue about that.
2. We are all Human Beings
3. We are all a part of creation not apart from creation
That's the net, net of the net.
Now, enter the knowledge of good and evil and the next thing you know we human beings start dividing things.
It's true whether we're talking Adam or Atom
Let's divide by gender
Adam - Eve
Man - Woman
Boar - Sow
Buck - Doe
Hansel - Gretyl
Let's divide by sexual preferences
Hetero - Homo
Asexual - Bi
Plain - Kinky
Whipped cream - Body Butter
Milk Chocolate - Dark Chocolate
Mounds - Almond Joy (Almond Joy has nuts...Mounds has mounds)
French Maid - Sister Carolyn
Let's divide by color
Black - White -
Red - Yellow
Chartreuse - Magenta
Tan - Pale
Freckled - Tawny
Fair - Olive
Wan - Swarthy
Let's divide by hair color
Blondes - Brunettes
Redheads - Jet Black
Curly - Moe
Straight - Frizzy
Let's divide by weight
Thin - Fat
6-pack ABs - Beer Belly Kegger
Under 100 Lbs - Over 100 Lbs
Let's divide by clan or tribe or age or possessions
My family - Her family
My generation - Their Generation
Younger generation - Older generation
Her family traditions - My family traditions
My Towel - Her Towel
Her Money - Our Money
Let's divide by geography
East - West
North - South
LA - SFO
City - County
Blue state - Red state
Let's divide by universe concept
God - God Particle
Intelligent Design - Chaos
Gaia - YHWH
Darwin - Mendel
Rumi - Bishop Sheen
We humans like to slice and dice things down to pretty fine levels.
NOTE: In the case of VOLPI proscuitto thin-sliced with melon is a very very good thing. But when it comes to Kenrick Thuringer...KCE and I agree that it's thick does the trick!
This is true of many things.
Let's divide by attitude
Positive- Negative
Optimist - Pessimist
Happy - Depressed
Likes - Dislikes
Egg Lover - Egg Hater
National League - American League
Cards - Cubs
Red wine - White wine
French Champagne - California Champagne
Asti - Nasti
Lager - Pilsner
IPA - Stout
Lexus - BMW
Ford - Chivvy (Southside for Chevy)
Yin - Yang
Bob - Bing
Let's divide by earthly lot in life
Brain surgeon - homeless person
Clydesdale - dung beetle (it's a dirty job but without the dung beetle we'd be up to our eyeballs in Horse Puckey)
Land owner - peon
Rich - Poor
Haves - Have nots
Lottery Winner - Sorry Not A Winner
Let's divide by God-concept
Pick any God-concept you like.
Humans will divide it, label it and categorize it into a very specific belief system and get some other Human Beings to sign up to the TRUE creed...or else!
Southern Baptist- Northern Baptist (?)
Catholic - Protestant
Moslem - Jew
Shia - Sunni
Reformed - Hassidic
Buddhist - Nudist
Taoist - Confuscionist
Episcopalian - Unitarian
Let's divide by moral ethos
Right - Wrong
We're Right - They're Wrong
Commandment - Suggestion
Reward - Punishment
Heaven - Hell
Purgatory - Limbo
Vice - Virtue
Pop Quiz for my Catholic buddies:
Is Eating Meat On Friday A Sin?
YES -NO- NOT ANYMORE - NOT IF YOU OWN FRANDEKA's or BOB's FISH STORE
So?:
Where does all this Human DIVISIVENESS get us?
Answer: It gets us right to where we are today.
love the nietszche quote....exactly light and dark is simply a matter of perspective, and perspective is relative to our biology, our culture, our psyche, our own moral views which were often developed as children observing our peers...
it's human nature to divide and categorize...
1. The Universe was created and continues to be created every second. (The BIG BANG was just the SOUND of the BIG THOUGHT being articulated by THE BIG THINKER.) We can argue about that.
2. We are all Human Beings
3. We are all a part of creation not apart from creation
That's the net, net of the net.
Now, enter the knowledge of good and evil and the next thing you know we human beings start dividing things.
It's true whether we're talking Adam or Atom
Let's divide by gender
Adam - Eve
Man - Woman
Boar - Sow
Buck - Doe
Hansel - Gretyl
Let's divide by sexual preferences
Hetero - Homo
Asexual - Bi
Plain - Kinky
Whipped cream - Body Butter
Milk Chocolate - Dark Chocolate
Mounds - Almond Joy (Almond Joy has nuts...Mounds has mounds)
French Maid - Sister Carolyn
Let's divide by color
Black - White -
Red - Yellow
Chartreuse - Magenta
Tan - Pale
Freckled - Tawny
Fair - Olive
Wan - Swarthy
Let's divide by hair color
Blondes - Brunettes
Redheads - Jet Black
Curly - Moe
Straight - Frizzy
Let's divide by weight
Thin - Fat
6-pack ABs - Beer Belly Kegger
Under 100 Lbs - Over 100 Lbs
Let's divide by clan or tribe or age or possessions
My family - Her family
My generation - Their Generation
Younger generation - Older generation
Her family traditions - My family traditions
My Towel - Her Towel
Her Money - Our Money
Let's divide by geography
East - West
North - South
LA - SFO
City - County
Blue state - Red state
Let's divide by universe concept
God - God Particle
Intelligent Design - Chaos
Gaia - YHWH
Darwin - Mendel
Rumi - Bishop Sheen
We humans like to slice and dice things down to pretty fine levels.
NOTE: In the case of VOLPI proscuitto thin-sliced with melon is a very very good thing. But when it comes to Kenrick Thuringer...KCE and I agree that it's thick does the trick!
This is true of many things.
Let's divide by attitude
Positive- Negative
Optimist - Pessimist
Happy - Depressed
Likes - Dislikes
Egg Lover - Egg Hater
National League - American League
Cards - Cubs
Red wine - White wine
French Champagne - California Champagne
Asti - Nasti
Lager - Pilsner
IPA - Stout
Lexus - BMW
Ford - Chivvy (Southside for Chevy)
Yin - Yang
Bob - Bing
Let's divide by earthly lot in life
Brain surgeon - homeless person
Clydesdale - dung beetle (it's a dirty job but without the dung beetle we'd be up to our eyeballs in Horse Puckey)
Land owner - peon
Rich - Poor
Haves - Have nots
Lottery Winner - Sorry Not A Winner
Let's divide by God-concept
Pick any God-concept you like.
Humans will divide it, label it and categorize it into a very specific belief system and get some other Human Beings to sign up to the TRUE creed...or else!
Southern Baptist- Northern Baptist (?)
Catholic - Protestant
Moslem - Jew
Shia - Sunni
Reformed - Hassidic
Buddhist - Nudist
Taoist - Confuscionist
Episcopalian - Unitarian
Let's divide by moral ethos
Right - Wrong
We're Right - They're Wrong
Commandment - Suggestion
Reward - Punishment
Heaven - Hell
Purgatory - Limbo
Vice - Virtue
Pop Quiz for my Catholic buddies:
Is Eating Meat On Friday A Sin?
YES -NO- NOT ANYMORE - NOT IF YOU OWN FRANDEKA's or BOB's FISH STORE
So?:
Where does all this Human DIVISIVENESS get us?
Answer: It gets us right to where we are today.
The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.
Last edit: 20 Jan 2010 19:23 by Jon.
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- Posts: 5905
20 Jan 2010 17:42 #28115
by RyuJin
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Re:the nature of the \"darkside\"
:laugh: some of those were pretty good (her money - our money, instead of her money - his money)
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Please Log in to join the conversation.