A Dark Fourth of July

ren wrote: That being said the pro choice camp ought to choose something other than 'my body' as an argument. It is repulsive.

Could you elaborate on this?

Then how about the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

An unwanted/unexpected child can throw everything out the window in that department.

And it is their body, their choice. You can't be force to give blood. You cannot have your organs harvested after you die without consent. A corpse is given more bodily autonomy than a live, functioning, conscious woman.

I want to address this point, because it’s fearmongering:

* * Period apps track when you have periods and when you don't

This is the easiest piece of evidence to throw out of court. They’re not going to use a period tracker to determine whether or not you are pregnant. Any number of reasons are available for missing a period - Stress, New Physical Fitness regime, even uterine or ovarian cancer can cause you to miss it. There’s also that you may have simply forgotten to update it.

It’s going to take a Medical Doctor to say “so-and-so was preggers, now she’s not” for there to be enough evidence to prosecute a woman. They don’t need a period tracker at that point.

As long as you get a lawyer worth anything, that’ll get tossed out of court so fast heads will be flying. So let’s stop spreading this because it’s just creating more fear amongst a population that already has enough to fear.

Also chances are good that there isn’t enough resources at any given police department to track women via their phone. They’ve got other things to worry about in that department.

As for states stopping women from going across the state border, that’ll be something to take to the Supreme Court. States have a right to restrict what happens in their border, but IMO outside of it no.

You can’t get charged for a crime in your state if it happened in another. Example:

Say you purchase a gun legally in South Carolina, but that gun is illegal in Illinois. If you take it home, they can’t charge you for the purchase, they can only charge you with possession.

Intriguingly, a pro-life site even points out that Texas laws will still protect a woman who self-induces an abortion (for now):

https://www.liveaction.org/news/texas-woman-arrested-abortion-heartbeat-act/


That said, before anyone questions the miscarriage thing, that has happened in the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544.amp

Gonna be wierd having a guy talk about the period tracker app….but…this is your most invalid argument. Those apps only work by what info you put in them. It’s not like you have to bleed on your phone every month. They work by you putting what day you started (by typing) then they give an estimate of when your next one will be. They don’t magically make your phone a medical instrument. But even if they did, there are literally thousands of medical reasons for a woman to miss her period that arnt pregnancy.

I’m very very pro choice. Woman’s body, woman’s choice 100%. But I have to say people posting things like how the government is going to track their periods with an app is doing more harm for the fight than good. That is by far the dumbest conspiracy therory I’ve ever heard…..and Diana is not the first person I’ve heard it from for the record.

If we’re gonna win this fight and get womens rights back, it has to be with FACTS, and REASON, and HUMAN DECENCY…not by spreading craziness like “the government is gonna track my period using an iPhone app”

I don’t want my previous post to sound like I’m picking on Diana. That’s far from the case. 99% of her concerns are extremely valid, and should be considered. That said one bad piece of info mixed in can ruin our case. Here’s an example.

“I think the government is keeping secrets” my evidence is

1. They have classified briefings that arnt public
2. Intelligence agencies have high security
3. My cousin joe bob was abducted by aliens and anally probed
4. The information on the print out they gave me is highly redacted

See how number 3 made the rest of the points seem invalid and like they were coming from a crazy person? It’s an extreme example, but similar to Diana’s post. The majority of her points were great, accurate, and factual……but one invalid one ruins the whole post and becomes the focus, Just as it did for me today.

To win this fight, we gotta be better than that. Facts….evidence…that’s how we win. Misinformation and therorys will always be a losing ticket for any topic.

More research is required

https://templeofthejediorder.org/studies/initiateprogramme/2830-lesson-5-information-literacy-and-independent-research

Also does anyone know where the bill is?

It’s not a bill Rosalyn. It’s a Supreme Court ruling that was overturned. The laws haven’t changed, merely how the courts are allowed to interpret them.

Side note, I’m an engineer not an attorney, but that’s my understanding.

Here I'll quote Diana W in reference to an abortion ban bill

Other Parts of The Abortion Ban Bill
* You can now carry a concealed gun without a permit
* Listing of bills to be looked into
* * LGBTQ rights are in this abortion bill
* * Black rights are in this abortion bill
* * Gun control (lack of) is in this abortion bill
* * Re-distribution of voting regions to favor republican voters is in this abortion bill
* * Allowing Electoral Collage to decide the next president despite popular vote count

All of those are real concerns but they are not all coming from the same place. Some are from the Supreme Court Ruling and some are in The Texas Republican Party Platform. Others are from bills introduced but not yet passed and others have been suggested by candidates and legislators. There's been so much news lately with a drastic reductions of rights (not only abortion) that it's easy to get them confused.

There are bills being put forward in several states to pass state laws reguarding some of those things, but nothing nationally and definitely nothing collectively. I’m sure br.John [strike](an attorney)[/strike] (paralegal) can verify that laws can’t be all smashed together in an unrelated topic (ie. Gun control and election procedures in an abortion bill)

And that last one on the list about presidents being elected by the electoral college has been federal law for decades and has absolutely nothing to do with abortion in any way.

But that’s exactly what I been talking about…..spreading misinformation and preying on peoples fear is not how we get womens rights to abortion back. All the misinformation is doing far more harm than good to the cause.

NPR: How period tracking apps and data privacy fit into a post-Roe v. Wade climate
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1097482967/roe-v-wade-supreme-court-abortion-period-apps

THE GUARDIAN: Why US women are deleting their period tracking apps
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/28/why-us-woman-are-deleting-their-period-tracking-apps


VICE: Here’s What Period Tracking Apps Say They Do With Your Data
https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjkpbq/period-tracking-apps-data-privacy-safety


PROTOCOL: Period-tracking apps store users’ most private data. What will that mean in a post-Roe world?
https://www.protocol.com/policy/period-tracking-apps-abortion-laws


FLO (Period App) Policy
https://flo.health/privacy-policy#:~:text=When%20you%20use%20Flo%2C%20we,cannot%20be%20associated%20with%20you.

NPR: The Supreme Court could radically reshape elections for president and Congress
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/1109275691/the-supreme-court-could-radically-reshape-elections-for-president-and-congress


The Guardian: US supreme court case could give state politicians huge power over elections https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/30/us-supreme-court-state-elections-legislatures


Bloomberg: Supreme Court to Weigh Election-Law Overhaul in Voting-Map Case
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/supreme-court-to-weigh-election-law-overhaul-in-voting-map-case


NBC: The Supreme Court case voting rights experts say could bring 'chaos' to elections
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-case-voting-rights-experts-say-bring-chaos-elections-rcna34033


SCOTUSBLOG: Moore v. Harper
https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/moore-v-harper-2/

None of those say that the government can or would use a period tracking app to confirm a pregnancy…

And again, even if they did…..it’s not illegal to get pregnant. It’s a period tracker not an abortion tracker. Not everyone who gets pregnant has an abortion. And two, it’s just a calendar, not a medical device. They only go off info you put in them. I could download the period tracker right now and put in it that I’m on my period right now….and I’m a guy. I’ll also re state that there are thousands of medical reasons for a woman to miss her period. Even changing your diet can throw your period off by weeks. Do you really think swat teams are gonna be kicking in peoples doors to arrest women who joined weight watchers and it threw there period off or stoped it for a few months.

And none of those cases u listed in your second post are about abortion. They involve supreme courts yes…..but not an all powerful national abortion bill….and most are going through state supreme courts not the federal ones.

The last thing I will add to this thread is a word or caution. Just because somone writes a newspaper or magazine article about a topic DOES NOT MAKE IT A FACT! I can show you papers written by current collage professors that say the world is flat. I Can show you newspaper articles about people being murdered who are very much alive. It was announced on a local radio station that I served in the marine corps, and you all know I was army. My point is just because someone writes about something dosnt not make it government policy or even true.

Zero is right

Plenty of media use scare tactics primarily because of the way the human brain works, especially in the age of social media


Click Bait is a thing

We just have to be diligent and educated

Read the TOS

And remember that HIPPA exists as well

KHN: Will States Try To Ban Women From Traveling At All To Abortion-Rights States?
https://khn.org/morning-breakout/will-states-try-to-ban-women-from-traveling-at-all-to-abortion-rights-states/


Washington Post: Antiabortion lawmakers want to block patients from crossing state lines
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/


WebMD: Abortion Opponents Don't Want Patients Crossing State Lines
https://www.webmd.com/women/news/20220630/abortion-opponents-dont-want-patients-crossing-state-lines


SCOTUSBLOG: Returning regulation to the states, and predictable harms to health
https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/returning-regulation-to-the-states-and-predictable-harms-to-health/


Fox Rothchild: The Supreme Court’s Dobbs Ruling Creates a Variety of Significant Legal Issues
https://www.foxrothschild.com/publications/the-supreme-courts-dobbs-ruling-creates-a-variety-of-significant-legal-issues


PrisonPolicy: What the end of Roe v. Wade will mean for people on probation and parole
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/06/30/roe/

Fine ... whatever ...

have a nut

They cannot do any of that stuff unless we let them

Which is why informed voting is so important

Don't get me wrong, when they shove all that leagalease in my mailbox my head explodes. I do try to read and make informed choices

Thank you for the articles. I'll read them

I'm just going to chime in here and say that police will 100% absolutely beyond any doubt take every scrap of information off of your phone that they legally can and try to use it in court. Yes, period tracking apps "require your input" but it also uses math over time to adjust its predictions to *YOU* and the accuracy of them for a large number of people can be a little scary. So yes, if they think you committed the crime of getting an abortion the following will happen:

1) They will subpoena your phone and emails and Facebook and all other platforms of communication they can figure out how to send a request to.
2) They will scour your text messages and instant messages and emails for any sign or language of pregnancy or planning for the illegal activity.
3) They will use this information in court in addition to dragging your OBGYN into court to confirm the information. Remember, the more ways they can say the exact same thing, the more likely they are to sway a jury... the whole point of going to court.
4) Anything that isn't encrypted and/or password protected is fair game. Biometrics are essentially meaningless. Court precedent currently says that if it's physical, it can be compelled, but *CURRENTLY* you cannot legally be compelled to enter in a password or code to unlock something.

So yes, there is a lot of reason to be concerned about the personal medical information you are using on your phone. Dismissing these concerns is careless at best. At the moment, it looks like straight up gaslighting. But that's just my couple cents.

America has been in a pretty bad spot for a long time now. Religious extremism has been gaining more and more ground in the country since the 80s. It's been sad to see and know that essentially nothing can be done because the system is "operating as intended." They've had since 1973 to fix it. And have done almost nothing. I have pretty much zero faith at this point in the united states taking steps to protect human rights at this point. Right now you have one party who actively works against human rights and civil liberties unless they're a very specific white, "christian*" sort of human right or civil liberty. And the other party doesn't want to actually be political, they want to be "bipartisan" and "reach across the isle" and get played for the suckers they are *EVERY TIME*. Then they turn around and Mr. Magoo it all over again the next time they get in power.

The election system at its very core is so corrupt and broken that it's a mathematical impossibility for a legitimate third party to exist without the implosion of one of the two existing parties, and at that point you just guarantee that the other side always wins.

All of the steps that need to be taken to fix and address even the most basic of problems here requires the people who benefit the most from them not changing to change them. So they fight against it because they know they can completely stall and derail everything until they cheat their way to another super majority and take every possible loophole and cut corner to cram in every last thing they can to take even more away from you in the name of their religion and corporations.

So yeah. Not a big fan. Haven't been for a long time now. And when I see someone running around with a flag wrapped around them all lovey-dovey, they deserve some of the most serious suspicion. Because more often that not it is a facade to justify the terrible ways they treat the other people around them.

* - Their views an beliefs are so incredibly unchristian that it's almost funny. if their bigotry wasn't so incredibly dangerous to everyone else around them.

Getting pregnant does not equal had an abortion. Missing your period does not equal had an abortion. Skipping a period does not equal had an abortion. Entering menopause does not equal had an abortion. Loosing your period does not equal had an abortion.

Your period is what’s tracked. Personally, I’d never store health info like that on my phone.

I guess my point is that the government has better things to do than to track 1 billion womens periods. Half of which can still perfectly leagally get an abortion whenever they want. I agree with selinus in that if they had info, yes they would use it(or try too). But there’s not ever gonna be a period tracker task force sitting around watching for who’s had there period on time this month and who hasn’t, then calling the fbi to consult your obgyn before sending the police to kick down your door.