Is the term “toxic masculinity” useful?

Luthien wrote: I would assume by the way you dismissed my posting of a link with your passive aggressive posting of a link that would supposedly counter what I posted that you didn't actually read what I posted. Regardless of whether you didn't read it or simply skimmed it, it doesn't prove either of us right or wrong. It is quite the opposite; it poses that toxic femininity and toxic masculinity point to the same direction--worst-case gender archetypes exist in society. I do respect that you read what Dr. Saad wrote, as I have listened and read some of what he has to say about a lot of things (being that he's an evolutionary behavioral scientist). This whole tribalist stance that you take against the "left and feminists" is pretty absurd. But, such is the effect of a mind virus. The same happens on the left, I promise. I don't identify with either side of the political fence because they're both extreme in their views. Anyway, before I get too off topic, I read a snippet in a Wikipedia article:

Toxic masculine norms are a feature of life for men in American prisons, where they are reflected in the behavior of both staff and inmates. The qualities of extreme self-reliance, domination of other men through violence, and avoiding the appearance of either femininity or weakness, comprise an unspoken code among prisoners. Suppressing vulnerable emotions is often adopted in order to successfully cope with the harsh conditions of prison life, defined by punishment, social isolation, and aggression. These factors likely play a role in suicide among male prisoners.

So, basically, if you were to spend some time in a male prison, you would see all the toxic masculine behaviors being displayed, although way more extreme in nature than in society as a whole.

I've spent time locked up, I'm not overly concerned with "being right" nor do I refer to Wikipedia for any source of truth, lol. Just offering an alternative perspective...

DeboraJ wrote: I don't believe opinionated speculation is the way of the Jedi; I believe consideration of the facts is.

TM is not divisory....

It IS the beginning of a Men's Movement.

DeboraJ wrote: There's no "debate" on the usefulness of the term. Debating the term instead of debating the problem is just plain distraction from the problem.

And again, just more knee-jerk reactions to the word "toxic" applied next to the word "masculinity" as if it is an insult towards masculinity.

All I can figure is that everyone is so eye-deep in the phenomenon that they can't even see it and therefore can't discuss it properly...except you Carlos, you seem to have gotten a grip and realized that you were a victim of Toxic Masculinity. Sadly, most men don't and are stuck in it forever.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT BASHING MEN, IT'S ABOUT CALLING OUT A SOCIETY THAT WON'T LET MEN LIVE TO THEIR FULL HUMAN POTENTIAL BECAUSE THEY ARE STUCK IN THE MYTH OF THE "REAL MAN"....and that is the complete and total explanation in a nutshell.

Application of the term in any other way only helps Toxic Masculinity continue to pervert our society and anyone that pulls this conversation AWAY from the true definition of Toxic Masculinity is obviously still suffering under its control over their paradigm of reality; or they are still convinced that the myth of the Real Man is true and they are trying to destroy the term and the movement behind the term...which yes is real and is happening just like it happened when women stood up for themselves against this society.

And how this went from being a problem that EVERY MALE in America must face and handle, to being an issue for male inmates is a fine example of just exactly how arguing opinion will degrade the discussion and derail it from its true purpose, which is to break down and destroy Toxic Masculinity in America.

Sorry Locksley, but I am exiting this discussion because it can't seem to stick to facts over the butthurt opinions of some. Thank you for trying to make the temple aware of this issue in our society. And yes, I am still highly disappointed that this type of very deep thought conversation couldn't get off the ground with Jedi. I would have greatly enjoyed a full discussion with ideas on how to do my part to break down Toxic Masculinity for the men in my life so I can help to set them free from the unreasonable expectations of our society....my son is struggling with this right now and TM is SERIOUSLY affecting his sense of self-worth to society.

I know what Toxic Masculinity is. I understand it. There's no "debate" on the usefulness of the term. Debating the term instead of debating the problem is just plain distraction from the problem,

Luthien wrote: I see no insults, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

DeboraJ wrote: Sorry Locksley, but I am exiting this discussion because it can't seem to stick to facts over the butthurt opinions of some.

At least from what I can find. But I think it best to drop the issue, its been addressed, continue with this conversation. Its been a wonderful read, if albeit I've not contributed to it.