Star wars episode 8 May (contains spoilers)

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05 Apr 2018 02:36 #320072 by Manu
I LOVED The Last Jedi, and consider it one of THE best Star Wars movies so far.

Sven One wrote: I like the addition of rose and Finn though, I kinda think Rey is jealous.


I think Rey is hitting it off with Poe, so I don't think she is jealous at all.

Sven One wrote: Luke's Character in the film, he's not Luke from the previous episodes. He complains, seems cowardly, bitter and doesn't really resemble the legendary jedi. And being bested by a novice jedi in training.


I think it was quite wonderful to see Luke as a human being, deeply flawed and troubled. It's easy to save the Galaxy when you are Grand-Master-Starfleet-wrecking-Luke. But true heroes are those that ultimately choose good, despite their imperfect character.

Sven One wrote: Reys origins trashed "your parents were nobody who sold you for booze..." that sucks.


I hope Rey is in fact a nobody. It resonates with the ending where the slave boy moves a broom with the Force, dispelling the previous elitism of Jedi. It is empowering that anyone could in fact become the next hero. No Skywalker-blood required.

Sven One wrote: The director appears not to fully understand Star wars or its characters. I feel he ruined the vets of the series, Luke in particular, he did enhance leias character but, not much. Killed snoke off, I think killing off Kylo Ren mask was dumb to do, really killed off a lot of the good that Episode 7 did right.


I actually don't like Episode 7 very much, it hinges too much on nostalgia and has no clear message of its own. But it's that "certain point of view" thing. I think Kylo Ren killing his mask was probably a director's decision to be able to see Kylo's face and the range of emotions he's going though (Driver does a very solid acting job). Also, I feel the mask going away is symbolic of Kylo Ren's coming into his own as he steps out of the scared-child apprentice role and takes control of the First Order.

"Enlightenment is a destructive process.” - Adyashanti
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05 Apr 2018 15:23 #320090 by Sven One
Manu, you never cease to amaze me with your broad view of things :) I actually got done watching it a few more times to look more into the symbolism, the scenes and am going to actually go back and watch the entire series from 1 to 8.

But, I agree with you on everything you said and you brought up many valid points. I look at this movie differently after watching it a few more times and see that 7 yes, I felt was a tribute to nostalgia and I enjoyed it but, I feel like perhaps Rian vision was for Starwars to kind of start a new beginning for the series now that most of the old characters a going away. Bad, on my part I guess I had expectations based off the originals but, this movie isn't the originals and therefore I prematurely became critical of it but, have yet changed my opinion on it and actually really really like it.
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05 Apr 2018 23:50 #320098 by Proteus
It is a fun movie and the directing was decent. It did feel like a star wars movie in at least the general sense. Though I wouldn't say it's the best, mostly due to the abundance of glaring plot and character development issues that even most people who praise the movie admit they can't ignore.

Philosophically it has a good message of progressive morality and even spirituality for some of its main characters. The delivery of it felt fine to me.

What I had issues with however was that the structural integrity of its storytelling was almost completely non-existent. Half of the overall plot was never necessary and was mainly a waste of time (probably except for all the SJW and other political messages it was used to prop up). At many turns there are blatant femininist messages (how unbelievably powerful and righteous just about all the women are in contrast to just about all the men being pathetic and wrong throughout.

I didn't find myself caring much about Rey. She seemed simply like a fan's power fantasy, having no flaws and just getting to be the savior catalyst for everyone conveniently. She didn't really earn any of what she was able to do. Poe was not taken seriously and was pretty much talked down to needlessly. Fin was rather overly cheeked and cheapened in his role in everything. Leia could have not been in the film at all and nothing would have been any different. While I did genuinely like the concept of Luke's position, his justification for it was extremely lacking and unconvincing for his known character type.

As for villians, Snoke had massive potential but since this movie is clinging to "balance" and being grey, they inevitably had to snuff him (a grand threat) to keep to this, as well as make Kylo very wishy washy in wherever he stands.

The movie itself is a good popcorn flick but it's not really deep - it's not a high art indie film where every time it's seen there is always some new thing discovered. It's rather straightforward. I can see quite clearly the things that are admirable about its direction, and yet I can also see why, in that same direction, it's storytelling is quite lost and confused (not very well thought out).

If a movie like this is aiming to be so neutral, then it's inevitable to have very mixed and divided reactions. My impression of a neutral movie, is likewise, also neutral. For me, for a movie to really hit me, 1. It can't be afraid to take actual risks and confidently, and 2. It has to be proficient with the standard fundamental rules that are responsible for creating an actually progressing story, where that progression creates real arcs for its characters, none of which this film seemed to clearly achieve. I think much of what this film employed would have been best saved for ep. 9.

"It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know."
- Alan Watts
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05 Jun 2018 22:12 - 05 Jun 2018 22:15 #322407 by Adder
I haven't seen Solo yet so my heads still in TLJ... and I still have not watched this again, which is unusual for me!!! But I was thinking about it and realized a fun thing...

While yes we invent a universe from what little details the movies provided, and make other materials and storylines up to populate a fantasy world to suit our interests etc and hope new material fits how we want to see it..... lets put the toys away for a second and look to deeper potential connections, as to me is where the real power in these things lay and so I had the silly realization that the teaching revealed by Luke of transposing his own appearance across space actually could be seen to raise some interesting questions;

1. Ben Kenobi didn't die in EpIV!!?
Was Ben Kenobi physically present in the saber fight with Darth Vader, or meditating and projecting his appearance??
It's a big space station and it seems very convenient that he happens to turn up and draw out Vader at just the right time at just the right spot. It would obviously explain the strange death, perhaps he was just using the Force to control the cloak and saber and projecting his image.

2. Yoda didn't die either....
The departure of the final teacher might have been an important point in the teachings of Luke, in his particular 'hero journey'. So perhaps Yoda continued the illusion of ''vanishing death of Jedi' by projecting a dying version of himself into the Hut deliberately for training effect, and really did not die!!!?? Perhaps he also projected the high res Vader into the Cave as part of the teachings....

3. but Force Ghosts, and Vader in Ep VI
if a Jedi skill existed that allowed high fidelity apparitions of self, along with control of supporting physical props like robes and sabers etc, then its easy to imagine a grainy monochrome 'Force Ghost' appearance could also be used by the same skillset. In the original cut of Ep VI the Force Ghost of Vader was his old self, which would imply that either he was still alive (lets not assume that) or Force Ghosts did also actually exist (and that the Force Ghost apparition would be modeled over their real appearance). The alteration of the ending of Ep VI though to resemble Anakin instead would suit the memory of the Jedi who might have this skill and who also knew him, which removes the 'Force Ghost' as an actual component of the movie as far as I can tell... and instead was just an apparition created by Yoda and/or Ben for ceremonial, emotional or training purposes at that time!

What say youz all... interesting idea or a bit daft!?

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Last edit: 05 Jun 2018 22:15 by Adder.

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