The Shameful Secret

I've been reading my favorite book (Star Wars: Traitor) and came to a point that, when I first read it years ago, rang true for me and changed my perspective on the Force forever. The author, Matthew Stover, told me in an email that he sought to introduce some Taoist philosophies in the book. Personally I feel that it goes well beyond Taoist ideas, though I don't claim to know or understand the Tao (or the Force for that matter). The last few years for me have been about unlearning, more than learning.

So, here's a quote from the book. I'm very interested in everyone's opinion about it.

This is the shameful secret of the Jedi: There is no dark side.

The Force is one. The Force is everything, and everything is the Force. The Force does not take sides. The Force does not even have sides.

Light and dark are no more than nomenclature: words that describe how little we understand. What you call the dark side is the raw, unrestrained Force itself: you call the dark side what you find what you give yourself over wholly to the Force. To be Jedi is to control your passion...but Jedi control limits your power. Greatness─true greatness of any kind─requires the surrender of control. Passion that is guided, not walled away. Leave your limits behind.

If your surrender leads to slaughter, that is not because the Force has darkness in it. It is because you do.

The only dark side you need fear...is the one in your own heart.

A great passage, to be sure. Sounds very much like the ideology of Potentium, a group of Jedi that believed almost word for word that passage.

"Believers of Potentium said that the potential for light and dark sides resided in the user, not the Force itself, and that the Jedi were merely afraid to explore the full potential of the Force." -- passage from Wookiepedia about Potentium, sourced from Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

Very cool excerpt. Thanks for sharing.

I too have come to see it as more of a spectrum than a dichotomy.

The quotes...

"In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order."

and

"Order is simply the prevailing form of chaos"

... resonate with what you shared.

Arisaig wrote: A great passage, to be sure. Sounds very much like the ideology of Potentium, a group of Jedi that believed almost word for word that passage.

"Believers of Potentium said that the potential for light and dark sides resided in the user, not the Force itself, and that the Jedi were merely afraid to explore the full potential of the Force." -- passage from Wookiepedia about Potentium, sourced from Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

Wow. Thank you for sharing this, Ari (if you don't mind me calling you that :laugh:). Looking over that Wookieepedia article about Potentium is really making me feel like I've finally found something that describes basically how I feel about the Force.

Also, thank you Streen, for starting this topic. That's a very interesting passage.

Arisaig wrote: A great passage, to be sure. Sounds very much like the ideology of Potentium, a group of Jedi that believed almost word for word that passage.

"Believers of Potentium said that the potential for light and dark sides resided in the user, not the Force itself, and that the Jedi were merely afraid to explore the full potential of the Force." -- passage from Wookiepedia about Potentium, sourced from Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

This was a really great article, and certainly something new to me I second Lykeios' opinion. This seems very reasonable to me, and not too far off from how I've viewed the Force previously. Thanks for sharing it

No shame and really no secret . It's bout how WE see it . How WE ... persieve it and how we ... apply. I myself believe there is no dark or light , there is no authority of right or wrong, that doesn't mean I break laws and maliciously act, quite difrent for my interpitation. When I explain the no contest contest this is also true of light and dark. It is ... us... that define how we use it , that's really all there is to it , for me any way. Einstein says time is absolute then also says there are difrent measure and denomination and variables but one way or another it's relative to the ... choice we make. Kinna like the Force to me, yea it's there and mine is way difrent then yours but that's ok too. Conflict comes ( light vs dark rather than light AND dark) CAN come from our reluctance to acknowledge the existence of ... another interpitation and it's ability to exist with ... our own. Heavy stuff man .... the vs is human ...the and is ... natural.
Just my two cents and I hope they help to make a buck! Lol be well and happy seeking ! thank you for sharing !!! May we both grow together here .


Ps
This is the shameful secret of the Jedi: added ( the jedi in the story's and in cinema who believe in the force as such) There is no dark side.

There are Jedi in real life who believe this already. Smiley face, this place is filled with those ! Again , Happy seeking

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: No shame and really no secret.

No, of course not I used that title because it's the quote from the book (and I knew it would catch people's attention ). In reality it is more of a Joyful Clarity than a Shameful Secret. But to the Jedi of fiction, such an idea would be almost blasphemy, rejected outright.

We are more on the same page than you might think.

One more thing: I'm glad everyone likes this thread, but it is really just a small excerpt from a deeply philosophical book. Traitor challenges many common Jedi beliefs. It's rough, to be honest. Violent and sometimes depressing. But if you've ever suffered, this book will help you understand it. They say the truth will set you free.... well.... this was it for me.

The book is unfortunately buried deep inside the Yuuzhan Vong series, so you'd either have to read every book leading up to it, or read this . It's the Wookiepedia page about who the Vong are. It may be a lot of reading, but I believe it's worth it so as to understand the backstory of Traitor.

Hopefully I won't get in trouble to posting a link. The site and the book are fiction so I would hope not.

Tao 5

(Ron Hogan translation - 2004)



Tao's neutral:
it doesn't care about good or evil.
The Masters are neutral:
they treat everyone the same.

Tao is like a bellows:
It's empty, but it could help set the world on fire.
If you keep using Tao, it works better.
If you keep talking about it, it won't make any sense.

Keep cool.

Nicely done, Alexandre You found the connection.

That's what Matthew Stover was getting at.

Streen wrote: Nicely done, Alexandre You found the connection.

That's what Matthew Stover was getting at.

Thank you, Streen. Yet, some of us have known about this principle a long time before he would have written that story.

The up and down (coincidentia oppositorum -- again ) is that - being human - we can never quite get it in balance. In dynamic equilibrium perhaps, but it slogs from one side to the other of centre like so much ontological sludge ...

... but, as points out my apprentice, the most beautiful lotus grows in the foulest of sludge (therefore "5").