If not now, when? If not us, then who?

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6 years 5 months ago #302771 by
I have heard some version of this argument one too many times.

Jaedon Adar-Barnaby wrote: May we all be a comforter to those in mourning as we also may mourn. Right now, people are vulnerable. Lets be strength to those in need. Some would use such a Dark time to advance a political agenda..


I hope so.

I don't accept the premise that there has to be some mandatory waiting period on debate after yet another incident like what happened in Las Vegas (Orlando, San Bernadino, Newtown, pick one). Believe it or not, we can do both. We can comfort those who are in need, and we can demand action to make certain this never happens again.

Our grief is not enough. Our prayers are not enough. There are common sense public policy actions that we could take to reduce the casualty counts, and there are (hopefully) reasoned arguments to be made on all sides of the issue. It's time to make them, or stand aside so that those of us who are beyond ready for the carnage to stop can work toward that goal.

Or, if we have to have some arbitrary waiting period before we can take up the hard work of tackling this problem of gun violence, let's make it definite. What is appropriate? One day? Seven days? I'd like to know, so that I can raise the issue when opponents' tender sensibilities won't be offended, but before the memory has faded enough from public consciousness for the impetus to subside.

I hope it's not a question of body count, like we have to reach some critical mass of casualty before we can take up the issue, but if it is, what's that number? There are almost 600 dead or wounded today, maybe twenty thousand by grace or luck not wounded who are terrorized and traumatized today, millions affected and grieving today. Does that number have to be even higher?

Reasonable minds can differ on what has to be done about the issue of gun violence in the U.S. But the "not today" argument is too easy and far too fallacious to be borne any longer. It dishonors the memory of those who have fallen to use their deaths, and our grief over their deaths, as an excuse to continue to do nothing.

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6 years 5 months ago #302777 by
The hardest part to swallow about the "not today" argument for me is that 50+ people will never have a tomorrow to address it. Maybe today was the day they would change the world, but their lives were taken from them yesterday. There is no opportunity to address this later for them, or for their loved ones who will never get them back.

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6 years 5 months ago #302783 by Carlos.Martinez3
I subscribe to the very now effect and way of life . I can not do much for others and I do not live in the shadows of others effects or un effects. I live by the laws that are passed by the people I voted.
I can clean and decesemble most handbheld guns and rifles ( army perk) but bet u I teach and treat my family with the wisdom and caution to know and respect things as such.


I get a kick out of the sights and signs in yards that say .... please don't get offended not the intention ... pray to stop this or that , yes prayer and good intentions are grand but action is needed for action. My action is I have 3 hearts who have what they need to Handel situations as such. Yes pray but vote and educate and act .... I agree Atticus very much we can do both. I do! U can , u do. Right now is gone ... were u ready?!

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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6 years 5 months ago #302814 by
I would like to further your point, Atticus.
Lately, I have been trying to focus a lot on the teachings here at the Temple and that one that came to mind is:
"Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now"

Inaction at the time of an event such as this latest tragedy can perhaps do even more damage than we might think!
Allowing this to further without radical change immediately will bring detrimental effects on all of us.

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6 years 5 months ago #302815 by MadHatter
I would like to pose a real-life situation that I encountered. Since we are discussing the need for regulation let me put what happened to me and then I would like the opinion of what I tools I should or should not have been able to have to defend against this situation. One day riding the bus home I took the bus one stop too far after dark. This put me in an area of my hometown that you do not go into after dark if you do not live there. I got off the bus and was trying to get myself out of the area and back to the main street asap.

About 30 seconds into this I hear " Snuff that white boy" and turn to see four people approaching me and one pointing me out. Two of the people coming at me had a pipe or stick of some kind in hand. I was being pointed out to be beaten down as part of a gang initiation. All because I went one stop too far

Now I am five foot two. So I am not out running four ( or five if the guy pointing me out joins in ) guys that are close to or over six foot in a short sprint. Pepper spray is not always effective, might not have the volume I need and takes time to kick in. So that tool may or may not work. A taser or other electrical stun weapon is a one-hit deal. A knife is not really a great option here for obvious reasons. So that leaves me with what? A rifle or shotgun is not sensible to carry outside the home. 911 will not be there for a few minutes even if I can dial and give my location while fleeing and hoping I am not chased down. So if I have a small capacity magazine pistol that is 8 rounds or less that is two shots a person IF all of them hit and the fifth guy does not join int. The reality is that I might miss or two shots a person might not stop them all depending on shot placement.

So in your opinion should I just be out of luck? Should I really hope that I dont miss and all my shots are placed to be fight stoppers? Is it likely that merely presenting my firearm will stop them? Sure. In my case it did. But if it had not, if they decided to attack, I want all the ammo that my firearm can hold because I have no interest in being dead or damaged for life after a club to the side of my head. But I want your opinion. What would you feel I should have available? Keep in mind the facts I gave and the fact that a firearm is not a best case situation tool. Its a tool for the worst day of your life and that means we have to look at the worst case potential outcomes.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
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6 years 5 months ago #302816 by Rosalyn J
If I may be so bold, on Thursday next I am attending my local Town Council meeting. I'm done shouting at the rooftops for change.

Pax Per Ministerium
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6 years 5 months ago #302824 by
That's the thing, Mad. We're not discussing the need for regulation. "Not today."

But the funny thing is that today some people assume Senan and I are anti-gun. Because we're talking about it, we must be dialing up the confiscation posse.

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #302826 by MadHatter

Atticus wrote: That's the thing, Mad. We're not discussing the need for regulation. "Not today."

But the funny thing is that today some people assume Senan and I are anti-gun. Because we're talking about it, we must be dialing up the confiscation posse.

You have shown a desire to talk about it. As has Senan. You appear to agree with his ideas that more limits are needed. So I went with what has been put forward and explained how it could kill me. I then ask for your views on what I should or should not have based on that. If you wish to talk about it lets talk. I am asking for your view.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by MadHatter.

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6 years 5 months ago #302828 by JamesSand

So I went with what has been put forward and explained how it could kill me.



The premise of your story was "I went to a place I knew I was unwelcome"

From the other side of the story - you intruded, armed, into someone else's "domain" where they didn't want armed intruders.


That aside, your life isn't really so important, and escalation really helps no one in the end...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnOsbD0wUw

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6 years 5 months ago #302830 by Rosalyn J

That aside, your life isn't really so important,


Perhaps a general pack of respect for life is lacking

Pax Per Ministerium
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