If not now, when? If not us, then who?

And to you, Hatter, I also see your point as well. I tend to worry about the escalation of violence, though. I want to use the least necessary while you see the value of using the most available. Both have their advantages and drawbacks, but you make a good argument for your methods.

You and I also have very different circumstances to consider. I don't know how it is where yo live, but where I live, home invasion robberies are extremely rare and typically do not involve weapons. Criminals sneak into unoccupied houses and steal what is convenient. I don't see a likely scenario of someone on drugs openly challenging me in my house while I'm holding a shotgun. It would be a first in my community. I'm very privileged in that sense, and I'm sure that is where much of my liberal bias comes from. If crime were a larger problem in my area, I might think differently. Until then, I'm still encouraging a de-escalation of firepower.

If I had a choice, we would all just punch each other instead. :dry:

Senan wrote: Just don't ever go wacko and prove me wrong

And that right there is the underlying issue

We all have our preference and a great many of us have done our training and research. People are becoming more and more educated the higher the danger is becoming. The learning of firearms has skyrocketed in the past three years than it had back when I was kid. People are becoming more and more conscious about home and personal safety.

Your Average Joe isn't buying firearms because they want to commit mass murder. They are doing so because they wish to protect their family and do so accurately. Part of Accuracy is also comfort handling. I can shoot an AK far better than I can a shotgun and that Evo Scorpian that I want? It fits my comfort perfectly!!! I can shoot with confidence and better accuracy because it fits my personal restrictions the best. Just like the Taurus that I carry fits in my hand like a glove!!!.......Now to just find a holster that will allow me a better concealed carry because let me tell you....Concealed Carry for woman is NOT easy!! 0_0 /end rant

The problem.....Is when people go from Good Choices to Evil actions. And that happens due to a great number of situations around them....the Gun is just the easiest execution of said outside pressure. A final action after who knows how long of pressure?

I feel we should Identify, Address (at great length) and Eliminate the Outside Pressure. Not the weapon the killer chooses at the end.

I just read an article about the Killer transaction of a bucket load of $$$ to the Philippines....where his girlfriend lives.....I am curious to find out more on THAT connection to this whole deal.

because in a firefight, you'd kick my butt and then I wouldn't be around anymore to be this liberal thorn in your side.

Hey, I love having discussions with you guys I learn just as much! *Big Hugs*

I the first few and I want to be sensitive on this issue of gun control, those grieving loss of loved ones. I know several who had loved ones who were in Vegas on that day, I've known people who knew someone who died in the trade centers on 9/11. I don't even know if I have an answer for this. But, as a Jedi I believe we are keepers of the peace and that is not just from the film's that is what I believe as a person.

I am one person and I can only do so much. I have been spending less time in the temple of late and been going out into the world learning, helping at soup kitchens, cleaning up trash trying to give outside my life. Honestly, though as a Jedi where can we be effective? Where can we be a pillar of strength in this world that is in a state of chaos? I personally don't want to just be a statue I wanna help.

Atticus wrote:

jag1993 wrote: the Heller Case

Them's fightin' words.

I'll see your Scalia and raise you a former Chief Justice Warren Burger (a Republican appointee, BTW, from the way back when we all still believed in intellectual honesty):

The Gun Lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.

I've been pointing this out to people for years...the "gun nuts" just don't care what the intention of the second amendment actually was and other people say things like "the genie is out of the bottle and there's no use trying to put it back in." Both responses are maddening and frustrating.

In any case, I'm still trying to process what the hell happened in Las Vegas. 58 people dead and somewhere in the 400s of people wounded? That's more than most suicide bombers and IEDs accomplish. Why the hell did this guy suddenly snap? By all accounts he seemed like a normal, average 64 year old rich white dude. Why the hell was he allowed to even own this kind of an arsenal? There were something like twenty-three guns just in the hotel room he attacked from and some dozen(s) of others in his houses. Come on, NOBODY needs that amount of firepower for "self-defense" or "hunting." And if he was a gun collector of some kind why were these just fairly ordinary, modern rifles instead of beautiful antiques? This whole "we need the guns for self defense" argument kind of falls flat when people like this shooter pop up with such a massive number of guns. You know there are apparently significantly more guns in this country than people? Just think about that for a second. More guns than people.

Yea...so I have quite a few thoughts just kind of swirling around in my head.

This is all the petitions on change.org related to Las Vagas. I'm signing all the one's I agree with:


https://www.change.org/t/las-vegas-shooting-en-us-2?source_location=homepage