Views on cracked/pirated software

Lol glad to see I'm not public enemy number 1 anymore but also glad to see the tread is still alive and people are still giving their opinions towards it

Kobos wrote:

Lykeios wrote:

Avalonslight wrote: I do mind what I love doing for free when it's for someone else's use but my own.

Show me a society where everyone has their needs and requirements paid for and I will show you a society where I can provide my livelihood to you for donations only.

Until then, you pay so I can live to keep providing you with what you're paying for. That's the way capitalism (or even the world really) works.

And therein lies the trouble with capitalism...our ability to survive depends on our ability to provide others with products and services. Our worth is judged by what we provide for others.

Your point is well taken, but there is a better way.

Lykeios, I see what your saying; but in reality there really isn't a better way, in any system of human society, our survival as a social species requires us to be able exchange goods or services for other goods or services we cannot provide ourselves. And there are always third parties who differentiate the value of said services or goods (in most cases to their benefit). So then what is are alternative knowing that we cannot for the most part trust those third parties?

We could exchange services for goods or goods for services. We don't NEED money. For centuries bartering was good enough, why can't it be good enough again?

Or why couldn't we provide for everyone? "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability."

Lykeios wrote:

Kobos wrote:

Lykeios wrote:

Avalonslight wrote: I do mind what I love doing for free when it's for someone else's use but my own.

Show me a society where everyone has their needs and requirements paid for and I will show you a society where I can provide my livelihood to you for donations only.

Until then, you pay so I can live to keep providing you with what you're paying for. That's the way capitalism (or even the world really) works.

And therein lies the trouble with capitalism...our ability to survive depends on our ability to provide others with products and services. Our worth is judged by what we provide for others.

Your point is well taken, but there is a better way.

Lykeios, I see what your saying; but in reality there really isn't a better way, in any system of human society, our survival as a social species requires us to be able exchange goods or services for other goods or services we cannot provide ourselves. And there are always third parties who differentiate the value of said services or goods (in most cases to their benefit). So then what is are alternative knowing that we cannot for the most part trust those third parties?

We could exchange services for goods or goods for services. We don't NEED money. For centuries bartering was good enough, why can't it be good enough again?

Or why couldn't we provide for everyone? "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability."

In one word, greed.

JLSpinner wrote:

Lykeios wrote:

Kobos wrote:

Lykeios wrote:

Avalonslight wrote: I do mind what I love doing for free when it's for someone else's use but my own.

Show me a society where everyone has their needs and requirements paid for and I will show you a society where I can provide my livelihood to you for donations only.

Until then, you pay so I can live to keep providing you with what you're paying for. That's the way capitalism (or even the world really) works.

And therein lies the trouble with capitalism...our ability to survive depends on our ability to provide others with products and services. Our worth is judged by what we provide for others.

Your point is well taken, but there is a better way.

Lykeios, I see what your saying; but in reality there really isn't a better way, in any system of human society, our survival as a social species requires us to be able exchange goods or services for other goods or services we cannot provide ourselves. And there are always third parties who differentiate the value of said services or goods (in most cases to their benefit). So then what is are alternative knowing that we cannot for the most part trust those third parties?

We could exchange services for goods or goods for services. We don't NEED money. For centuries bartering was good enough, why can't it be good enough again?

Or why couldn't we provide for everyone? "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability."

In one word, greed.

Precisely. It's simple greed that keeps us from providing for all humans on the planet.

Piracy exists for a reason. That's all I'm really saying.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

ren wrote: If it's not worth what the developer is asking for it, the person can either use it pirated or not use it at all, which changes absolutely nothing from the developer's point of view, he's still not getting paid. When appropriately managed piracy does a lot of good, especially when it comes to finding better ways to capitalise and on larger scales.

No-one loses integrity over the copy of something immaterial, and money not made is not money lost. Instead of telling people to shut up or what you think jedi values are, maybe think it through first?

Prime example :whistle: Anything requiring that much effort to erase it from your conscience is something you shouldn't be doing.

Where's the effort and what's being erased?

If I'm an independent developer, I want to be paid for my time and effort in developing the software. If I'm working for a company, I expect the company to pay me for the same (though, they would definitely get the bigger cut from the profits). Government work (); the government will pay me, though not very well.

I think you may be referring to independent work. In that case, there are plenty of options to choose from (free as in speech and beer, to paying for the product and support). If it's worth having, and you care about ensuring that the people working on it keep updating the software and are able to support themselves, then you would support them, right? Yes, there is the donation option, but it's no guarantee. If you want completely free, Linux has plenty to choose from. OSX is hit or miss. M$ is not my preferred OS, but it's also given me the most heartburn in most regards.

I typically look for good alternatives, if I can't pay for what I want, or I'll use the alternative until I can pay for what I want. If I didn't care, I would simply find a crack or download it cracked and move on (which I've done in the past, but I prefer not to steal).

Lykeios and there in lies the problem how do you practically solve greed?

I have my own personal view I would love to see happen here. For example there is in fact a bare minimum quality of living (health care, housing, food, water and education) we could probably provide with public funds in the US, this said I think that should be established and maintained, but. What happens when some one who is unfortunately stuck in that situation misuses the resources they have on hand (whether on purpose or by accident), do we allocate more resources to that person. (Now my answer is yes, however, eventually there has to be a limit because others will also see the reallocation of resources and think why do I have responsibilities....For example, if I live in government subsidized housing(I have) and take care of my place myself keep it clean ect, but my neighbor does not with theirs, and the government hires a house keeper for them, I am gonna be unhappy that I have to clean. So, then the house keeper comes to both places but they have to be paid twice as much now and where is that produced?). This is unfortunately human nature....I digress though....So, I would love to see this bare minimum in place with a capitalistic market over top (Surplus production in a society is in fact good in a global economy). But then we still have to place a variable for minimum production by person to provide for that and it becomes a never ending catch 22 of production and allocation of resources. I would love the barter system but on a scale of producing things like computers (things with lots of different production points), electricity (non tangible) ect.; it's not practical to not have currency.

However, something I want to note, conversations like these are where we start to build that society. It may be a million miles off but each step counts.

Much Respect and Love,
Kobos