Blurred Lines of Morality

Okay making sure I understand what your saying Maitre. If it's not, "What to do" and it's rather determining "Is X moral?" then, "my" conclusion to the questions above is, "Is X moral?" my answer is no but, that is my answer and perhaps not someone elses.

Now, for example in America some of these are subject to imprisonment, fines and alot of people really upset. I only say what I know because I don't know for a fact what other countries view as "moral" perhaps in some parts of the world they are considered "moral" so, to answer a questions with a question is "X moral in the eye of the beholder?" For that matter define what is moral.

I am also saying this not in a debate or in a confrontational way but, Alex you've peaked my curiosity what is your opinion on morality.

Arthnos wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: 1. I wound exact the revenge as appropriate.

2. Two wrongs don't make a right. Instead I would try to expose him.

3. I would protect him/her

4. I see no issues with this relationship as its mutually beneficial and would encourage it.

I find your response very interesting. You say two wrongs don't make a right but wouldn't exacting revenge against the bully also be a "wrong"?

Interesting point but I don't consider revenge wrong. I consider it justice. In the first case the bully did nothing that can be considered illegal by social standards and so no legal action can be taken against him. This is a case where personal justice prevails. In the second case that person is actually committing a crime and can be punished according to law so that becomes the preferred vehicle for justice.


Edit: Oh wait, I just went back and reread the original text and it describes scenario two as my boss not actually committing any crime. Not sure how he can cheat a client out of money and not be committing a crime though? so I might rethink that scenario. but mostly I just find it unrealistic right now.

Sven One wrote: Okay making sure I understand what your saying Maitre. If it's not, "What to do" and it's rather determining "Is X moral?" then, "my" conclusion to the questions above is, "Is X moral?" my answer is no but, that is my answer and perhaps not someone elses.

Now, for example in America some of these are subject to imprisonment, fines and alot of people really upset. I only say what I know because I don't know for a fact what other countries view as "moral" perhaps in some parts of the world they are considered "moral" so, to answer a questions with a question is "X moral in the eye of the beholder?" For that matter define what is moral.

I am also saying this not in a debate or in a confrontational way but, Alex you've peaked my curiosity what is your opinion on morality.

Hoping to answer this today, I didn't have the time to give the answer the 'justice' it needs and deserves (pun intended )

This is a much broader question than many think it is ; as far as the "what to do" part, that has to be informed by the "is X moral ?" part. One can't discern a right course of action unless the rightness/wrongness of what one is taking action upon is determined first. Since rightness/wrongness are not perceivable properties of events - not detectable with the senses -, then we find ourselves before a conceptual quandary, not a perceptual one.

It is for this reason that I've been insisting (to the dismay of many) that morality is not an objective issue. There is no 'right or wrong' about the world "out there." This raises David Hume's old pitch about not being able to derive "ought/ought not" from "is." We do nonetheless believe that there are things that we ought and ought not do, but these are not based on what one "is" doing, only on what we feel about what others have done in the past which have caused (a lot of) people suffering. And therein lies what the motive for the laws that impose prison sentences, fines and lots of people being upset in homologous cases... If 'rightness/wrongness' - or morality/immorality - are conceptual attributes that we, by our feelings of approval or disapproval, assign to particular kinds of events and not at all perceptional properties, then the entire basis of morality is grounded in the non-rational, emotive agreement that some events are undesirable for most of the people we know. Thus, what makes an event or an individual's actions moral or immoral is a matter of intersubjectivity (including the subjective stance of the accused).

Let's consider this (as Kyrin was mentioning above), laws do not determine morality and are not even all that adequate for insuring Justice. As it were, laws, police and corresponding bureaucratic "justice" systems are a bit misleading when considering the concept of Justice ; they are elements of "jurisprudence" through which cultures try to exercise Justice -- they are not Justice itself. Whereas I cannot warrant personal executions of revenge as corresponding to Justice, one would be wise to exercise caution when making an appeal to moral relativism (in one country X being moral whereas in another X is immoral). That is ultimately paralysing and disparages the very open-mindedness and tolerance it attempts to uphold.

Morality is a balancing act between conflicting ideals and aims. Even animals as low in intelligence as rats (which are a lot smarter than i expected before i started reading about them) seem to have something akin to a "fairness concept". So there is reason to believe that some basic morality was integral to the evolution of mammal life, of human life; US.
You cant determine morality without understanding the frame of referemce of the people involved. The understanding and motives of the actor are always the measure of the morality. Is it immoral to kill? Depends: did you kill someone in order to take their money, or because they were going to kill you for your money?

This is an area i feel many Jedi are missing the boat by a wide margin: its very hard to take a broad act (such as killing) and say it is categorically, unequivocally immoral. That doesnt mean that morality is simply an opinion, it means that an act is not moral or immoral based on the act itself, but depending upon the context within which the action was taken. Im very much opposed to the relativism which suggests that good and evil are only personal opinions. People may be motivated as a consequence of their own subjective perceptions, but it is objectively true that individuals can act with more or less malevolence towards others. Malevolence is itself something we can define in, if not a completely objective way, then at least in a quite rational and consistent way. And we can lay out some pretty common themes which are pretty much universally recognized to be at the heart of morality, such as basic reciprocity, exploitation of vulnerability, responsibility, trust and betrayal, honesty, especially, the imposition of suffering. People here really freak out at the word "evil" and imo that is a seriously naive, and potentially dangerous bias.

I do agree that morality can evolve as culture evolves, but so do humans evolve, and life itself, and even the stars and planets change over time depending on processes and influences both internal and external. Just because a thing may change with time does not mean it isnt real.

In my study and practice I find the more I learn the more responsible I become and the more I want others to be free as well. It is to EVERY heart to seek and find their love wether they act it fake it hate it play it or get it it is to us as people .. Humans to make our own desisions. I am glad I can live in a day when it matters not ... What others do.. I will be ...me.my choices ... MY CHARACTER. I call no one out or say names not my tea not my cup.. But I will say this , my personal lines are not blurred . Encouragement : I have found my character and love and hate and everything and have re - defined it myself. I choose to be ( inside me) what I am.
Now .... I hold everyone to the same standard .
I will never be my wonder who or why or even discripions of ... Not my focus ...never MINE.

1. Why is your or anyone else's desisions in the sac really appropriate ?! My character says I hope ... I hope you feel loved . I hope you , like I did, can realize the power of a touch or a voice or time travel to places and memories in seconds by ... Your heart. When I finally realized my "love" was slot of what I was shown and found it looked like heaps of trash compared to what I really wanted . We As people have that right to stop and define our own love .... If I saw it wasn't what I wanted ... I stopped doing it . It was hard to break cabins and years of what seemed programmed junk but in the end .. It was worth the up grade !
2
I am a cultivated individual . My word stands. The more we practice the better we get ... With EVERYTHING! ....
Remember ... What way does a tree fall.... The way not leans ... Or so I've heard.
Dr sues
3
I'm a Jedi and some days I have to put on a metaphorical hat that says that's fine.
I am a OLD WARRIOR. Veteran some say. I bled for the colors. Does it upset you ... No ... Light and dark are. Both sides... All aides deserve the freedom. All sides. I know and keep my pride . Others.... I have no controll or even power over their actions and fellings. But... Don't show up to a peaceful demonstration with weapons. Let's just say ... My loved ones and close circle knows in most any situation ...in violence ... Just disappear .... Reset ... Home.


A love worth passing is worth displaying . Passing is to teach .
A love worh passing is obvious to every one around it ... Even hear say.

To eat ... Your choice .
I got mine . Ready and waiting . Don't ... Let my ...answer influence you on this one. Part of life is proper preparation Aids and reaps many bennifits .


I answered to the best I could. I would never have any problem with "tests" or hypotheticals. What helps me is to be rooted already before .... The storms or the moments that will test your morals. . There are others who are just like me in my character greater and younger yet we all strive to give more than we get and in that simples form ... A lot of these questions ... Have answers . These are mine and I hope they help.