How to Better Look After Newcomers?

Asakura Shoji wrote:

Nami wrote: Asking for a criminal is not the same as judging someone for a criminal record.

Then why ask in the first place, if you aren't intending to do anything with the information?

Human nature is going to lend itself toward judging, as much as people may try hard not to. You can't un-know that about someone.

To cover its legal bases. To make sure that sexual offenders aren't around children.

Also, if someone lies on a membership application, I would argue that they aren't dedicated to Jediism. Honesty is one of the 21 Maxims.

"Honesty: To avoid lies.

A Jedi is honest with themselves and seeks to always go beyond appearances. There can be no honest self without the knowledge and wisdom to see truth."

Asakura Shoji wrote: *EDITED to add* Also, who can see that information? Clergy only, who are bound by clergy-parishioner privilege, or more? I suspect it's more people than that.

Actually, the general Clergy cannot see that information. I don't know the answer to your broader question, although I suspect it would be some or all of the Council (the VP of Membership Affairs for certain), and possibly the Security Officers.

As I recall I never was asked for any of that. But, if they did I have nothing to hide. I have been a member of plenty of churches in my life and most of them never asked for a background check. Except, when I was part of The Lutheran Church (LMS) but,I was ordained a deacon so I can understand.

Arisaig wrote: Its for legal reasons. Anyone who becomes a member can aspire to become a Knight, and as a Knight they are a representative for this place. The TotJO must know if their potential reps have done anything that could reflect badly on them.

Its also part of the teachings. A Jedi has Integrity, so they fess up to the mistakes of the past and grow from it.

Then ask people before they become knights or apprentices, once they've been around long enough to know if this is what they want to do. Once they get to know you and you know them so they can feel comfortable with whatever judgement then occurs. Have it be like one of the Jedi trials in lore. Heck, have people do an actual background check at that point--you can get one for like $20.

I'm reminding you all this is in the "how to better look after newcomers" section. I'm suggesting that this is perhaps not a question for newcomers who just came here to try to learn about Jediism and participate in discussions about it.

Why not then just stay as a guest? Don't go to that member status. If, its invading on your privacy.

Agreed with Sven. There is no requirement to become a member unless you want to move up in this community. You can do the entire IP and participate in a majority of the forums as a guest... and if you want to make the next step after that, then you can submit your application.

Asakura Shoji wrote:

Nami wrote: Asking for a criminal is not the same as judging someone for a criminal record.

Then why ask in the first place, if you aren't intending to do anything with the information?

Human nature is going to lend itself toward judging, as much as people may try hard not to. You can't un-know that about someone.

As others have said, it's the very least we can do in the direction of due diligence.

It's not that we would not intend to do anything with the information ever, because clearly situations could come up where the Temple would take special measures based upon that information. The example thrown out about a convicted child sex offender is the obvious one, but what might not be so obvious is that taking measures to segregate someone whose history makes them compromised in such a manner is for that member's protection just as much as it is for the Temple or for hypothetical underage members.

What we don't do to my knowledge is deny someone membership based upon that information. At least I have never heard that we have done.

As a public defender, I work with people all the time who have to adjust to the life changes that come along with some criminal convictions. Believe me, I am totally on board with banning the box, but that is because we in the States have facilitated the misuse of this kind of due diligence on an institutional level by permitting unfair employment and civil rights discrimination based upon criminal history.

Sven One wrote: Why not then just stay as a guest? Don't go to that member status. If, its invading on your privacy.

Because you cannot post in the Jediism forum if you aren't a member, which is arguably why you are here in the first place.

Arisaig wrote: Agreed with Sven. There is no requirement to become a member unless you want to move up in this community. You can do the entire IP and participate in a majority of the forums as a guest... and if you want to make the next step after that, then you can submit your application.

You can't get the novice status change, either, unless you are a member.

I keep forgetting to thank you for raising this question, Asakura. By addressing your concerns, I hope I am not conveying the impression that I don't think this a debate worth having, or that there might not be a better way to reach for due diligence of this kind.