i thought i read that wrong but nope

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7 years 3 weeks ago #280015 by

JLSpinner wrote: When religion is used for political agendas, everyone loses.


The problem is that big religion is nothing more than thinly disguised big business. So they always have their hands in the cookie jar of politics. At a minimum they should either be banned from any political action, including public education and private schools, or be stripped of their ability to gain governmental non-profit status.

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7 years 3 weeks ago #280017 by

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

JLSpinner wrote: When religion is used for political agendas, everyone loses.


The problem is that big religion is nothing more than thinly disguised big business. So they always have their hands in the cookie jar of politics. At a minimum they should either be banned from any political action, including public education and private schools, or be stripped of their ability to gain governmental non-profit status.


Absolutely. Religions only role in government should be felt through morals. On the same note though, Government shouldn't be able to intervene with religions unless it is a health or safety concern.

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7 years 3 weeks ago - 7 years 3 weeks ago #280031 by Carlos.Martinez3
I could be wrong, I'm wrong often so if I am please forgive me ...
A organization in another country ... No matter name ...
Goes knocks leaflets magazines holds meetings temples
Tell people they need .... Change from ... (Gvnmt) ( religion) that's a given
In a Russian type ran area ...

I'm not surprised . That's the view from one side.
Then there's religious freedoms and American association , mixed with a bit of old school espionage add the Internet ...bang
Here we are .
I feel bad for the people involved . Kind of . I've read Fox s book of marters as well so they Kinna knew what they are getting into going there in the first place right ? Like missionaries who go to canabalostic tribes to teach n preach? Might actually get bit or even worse.
I posted cuz this ones tough for me personally !
Thanks to all who are adding and will add!
May the Force be with y'all every where y'all seek it !

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 7 years 3 weeks ago by Carlos.Martinez3.
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7 years 3 weeks ago #280069 by Eleven
I think it's sad that they're doing that to JW the ones I've met don't ever seem to be pushy or unkind. I smile and accept their pamplets and even had a sit down with a group of them one time...very kind sincere people. I have several friends from Russia that have lived here from a good while. I have noticed that Russia is the type of country that likes to do their own thing and I understand that but, I think they should have the freedoms that everyone else has but, I do live in America and I don't know enough about it to really say but, I think it's sad now alot of these JW are probably going to have to go into underground and secret hideouts to just practice their beliefs much like alot of china.

As far as the media is concerned...you cannot count on the media to tell the truth. They only let on maybe 10% of the actual story and tell you 90% of fabricate story.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit

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7 years 2 weeks ago #280079 by JamesSand

I think it's sad now alot of these JW are probably going to have to go into underground and secret hideouts to just practice their beliefs much like alot of china.


This sentence gave me the strongest deja vu...

I've had this conversation before...(I don't think it was at TotJO)

Hopefully I'll remember how it turned out.

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7 years 2 weeks ago #280088 by Gisteron
Just a quick update, if the story is at all true, it hasn't been very big on Russian news at all. At least from the people I know who watch them, when I brought it up, they made no indication of ever hearing about it. Their biggest story right now is about the investigation of the bombing in the St. Petersburg metró. Intersting timing for this to come up with no references, I'd say...

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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7 years 2 weeks ago #280090 by

Gisteron wrote: Just a quick update, if the story is at all true, it hasn't been very big on Russian news at all. At least from the people I know who watch them, when I brought it up, they made no indication of ever hearing about it. Their biggest story right now is about the investigation of the bombing in the St. Petersburg metró. Intersting timing for this to come up with no references, I'd say...


Huh..i agree .that is weird indeed , either they dont care about issues like that , but the main media here and there are picking up on it. Is it us again turning a moleshil into a pile of big shit again to discredit Russia ?

Netherlands and Belgium
http://nos.nl/artikel/2163673-rusland-overweegt-verbod-jehova-s-getuigen.html
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3107783/2017/03/17/Rusland-bekijkt-verbod-op-getuigen-van-Jehova.dhtml

Germany
https://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2017/03/23/russland-will-zeugen-jehovas-als-extremisten-verbieten/
https://www.meinbezirk.at/weiz/politik/russlands-justizministerium-strebt-verbot-von-jehovas-zeugen-in-russland-an-d2066997.html

Just a few media covering this ...

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7 years 2 weeks ago - 7 years 2 weeks ago #280126 by Gisteron
So I went to the homepage of the Supreme Court of The Russian Federation at www.supcourt.ru. Of course typing in witness would probably not yield anything useful, so instead I typed in Иеговы, the reference to Jehova as it is used in Свидетели Иеговы, the Russian term for Jehova's Witnesses. The internal site search yielded one mention of that word in bulletin #3 from 1997 and one mention in bulletin #5 from 2015 . The front page itself also had no mention of a case in progress or a recent ruling on a case alluded to in these news articles.

But of course it wouldn't be me if I just trusted a Russian office's internal search engine. So I went to Google, typed in the same keyword and limited my search to the supcourt.ru domain. I am by no means an expert in matters of law, much less Russian law, so bear in mind that the commentary I provide, while modest, is even at that still that of a lay person. Here is what I found:

A verdict from December 5th, 2016 , concerning a complaint JW Russia made about a case of customs offices refusing to let through JW pamphlets being imported through Finnland (with demands that the customs release the items). The supreme court upheld the decision made by several local and appeals courts on the case, to block the import of those writings, for the brochures in question contained claims about "the natural, biological supremacy or inferiority of persons depending on their religious affiliation and other statements" that fall under what Russian law deems extremist. Another supreme court ruling that appears to be concerning this case and is dated October 20th that year can be found here .

A verdict on an appeal from June 16th, 2016 filed by the local religious organization Jehova's Witnesses Of Stary Oskol. The appeal is against a ruling by the Belgorod County court to grant the administrative plaint of the Belgorod County chief prosecutor to declare the organization extremist and have it be disbanded for that reason because they had been continuing the extremist activity, namely spreading extremist materials, despite being appropriately contacted and warned to cease doing so, as is protocol in cases like these. The document I linked doesn't from the quick scanning I did reference any contents of the materials in question explicitly, except for referencing the website jw.org and - crucially - how to circumvent the block it is under in Russia. The site itself has been admitted to a list of extremist materials by the Central Regional Court of the City of Twer in a ruling from August 7th, 2013. I picked this one as the most recent representative of a sequence of similar cases with local JW groups that I could find.

There were a couple more cases like the second one, a few cases concerning large public gatherings that normally need to be announced and registered but weren't.

Finally, here is a verdict from December 2nd, 2014 , where the supreme court explains why it upholds the aforementioned August 7th, 2013 ruling, prompted by an appeal by the Twer County prosecutor to replace the ruling with one that only declares the extremist materials in question so, and not the entire website.

All in all, none of these seem exactly to be up to date, and eventhough the JW have had their share of troubles with the Russian laws and prosecutions, the case and ruling alluded to in the news article seems to be found only in those news articles. I did not find anything more recent or relevant on the second page of my search results on Google and did not bother to check out the third at all. For now I am willing to find the news story to be fake but I shall surely change my mind if and when evidence in support of the news story can be uncovered...

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
Last edit: 7 years 2 weeks ago by Gisteron.
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7 years 2 weeks ago - 7 years 2 weeks ago #280128 by Carlos.Martinez3
Thank you Gist
I'm right there with you

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
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Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 7 years 2 weeks ago by Carlos.Martinez3.
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7 years 2 weeks ago #280130 by
Ah how do they say it in English >>>> Myth Busted ?

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