Amish farmer thrown in jail by FDA for not having "approved" medicine

JamesSand wrote:

Yes it is. The man broke the law and deserved everything he got. How is this a conspiracy? Jedi should support the upholding of the law, should they not? No one should be above the just laws of the land.

Oh, I'm quite sure you've broken some laws, whether you were aware of them or not.*

Stand by for justice. I'm sure you won't protest


*I could be wrong, but I find it incredibly unlikely.
A great thing about many law enforcement systems - the onus is on you to prove your innocence.

oh, and paying the fine, even if it would be easier than fighting it, is admission of guilt.

:laugh:

As a matter of fact, no i wont protest. Its the law! Yes we have all broken laws and sometimes we are caught and sometimes we are not. But i guarantee to you that those times i am caught I will accept the punishment or pay the fine without resorting to screaming "the man is out to get me" or "its a conspiracy against the black man or the poor man or whatever other socially or racially biased slant you can think of."

You get a ticket, you pay it, screw it. Thats all there is to it.

But i guarantee to you that those times i am caught I will accept the punishment or pay the fine without resorting to screaming "the man is out to get me"

Emphasis mine..


:laugh: :lol: :lol: :laugh: :silly: :side:


(That's me laughing, controlling myself, then having a fit and rolling on the floor)

Right, so it has bugger all to do with the Rightness or Justness of the law, but it's an endless contest between individuals and law enforcers about what we can get away with?



You don't care for justice, you're a fence sitter who'll take a free ride when they can, but throws up a whitewash of "proper" appearance when anyone makes a fuss.*



*Oh don't take it personally, I could swap "yous" for "people who" or whatever to make it vague and untargeted, but I'm just making a point about the views expressed.

"its a conspiracy against the black man or the poor man or whatever other socially or racially biased slant you can think of."

I don't think anyone is saying this is a conspiracy against the Amish man, so much as the FDA has it's head so far up its arse (and somehow a whole bunch of different people in the chain, from the policy approvers at the top, to the meatsack at the bottom who guarded the house) couldn't run a bath, much less an agency designed to protect innocent people, and so insanity such as this (taking the article at face value) manages to carry on and it never occurs to anyone that they might have missed the point and are ruthlessly carrying out policy without any actual consideration as to the "spirit of the law".

I don't recall every saying anything about Justice. Justice is an illusion. I have no illusions of proper appearance or any other title you would care to attempt to bestow upon me. And just exactly what would you know about the FDA in any case? I see you wander the halls of this place primarily portraying the sarcastic clown poking fun at the expense of others so I take very little stock in any opinion you have to offer.

I apologize. It said he was convicted.
Jedi should uphold the laws. But not when the laws go against the people's rights. This guy did not hurt anyone and they know that. They made an example out of him. This by itself is not a conspiracy theory, but the fda and many other organizations are beyond corrupt. Does anyone know what the fda has done, how many untested drugs they released and then had to take them out of the market because of harmful side effects. There are more people that are killed from legal drugs than the illegal drugs.

These guys don't want you to make your own medicine. Our government does not want us to be self sufficient in food, medicine, power sect.

Maybe Sam felt it was dishonest to say that his
salve was not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease when, of course, that
is exactly what his salve is for.

As an herbalist myself (And one in the business of selling salves in the near future) I can attest to the fact that the salves and other products used DO NOT CURE OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE

Ahem

Sounds to me like (if you read the article) this Amish man had in fact known the proper structure and use of selling herbal products and chose to ignore it for quite some time....so the FDA took action.

It's really quite simple.....If you plan to open up a shop, sell things that effect a persons health (no matter how small), and do it en-mass.....then one should put forth the extra effort to meet laws accordingly or suffer the consequences.

yaba, where does it say he was convicted?
in the article I read it only said that he had been jailed and was awaiting trial

also, he was telling people that his products could cure cancer, he even had one called "tumor-gone"

there are laws about telling people the medicinal benefits of your product because without the laws people will sell snail poop as a cure for cancer and desperate (and poor) people will buy it

did you read these parts: ""The FDA says Girod also passed out pamphlets touting his products' effectiveness in treating various conditions. It is because of those claims that under the federal food, drug, and cosmetic act the FDA says the products are defined as a drug....The FDA requires anyone who manufactures a defined drug to register their facility with them. The Girod farm is not registered."

and

"back in 2013, a federal judge in Missouri banned Girod from distributing these products until he met certain conditions. Those conditions include allowing the FDA to inspect where Girod made the goods. According to the indictment, the FDA says their officers were prevented from conducting an inspection at the farm. They also say Girod continued to sell the products without letting his customers know they were the subject of a court-ordered injunction."

??

Trisskar wrote:

Maybe Sam felt it was dishonest to say that his
salve was not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease when, of course, that
is exactly what his salve is for.

As an herbalist myself (And one in the business of selling salves in the near future) I can attest to the fact that the salves and other products used DO NOT CURE OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE

Ahem

Sounds to me like (if you read the article) this Amish man had in fact known the proper structure and use of selling herbal products and chose to ignore it for quite some time....so the FDA took action.



It's really quite simple.....If you plan to open up a shop, sell things that effect a persons health (no matter how small), and do it en-mass.....then one should put forth the extra effort to meet laws accordingly or suffer the consequences.

The FDA did not take action. They overstepped their bounds. Even when he changed the label they threw him in JAIL for this. The guy was not hurting anyone. The salves were not dangerous and I have used it before. A lot of FDA approved stuff doesn't cure anything and has harmful side effects. I know this because I have personally dealt with their drugs and others have well. They have it in their mind that anything not FDA approved will do harm/and cannot cure anything unless it is a drug. Salves have worked on me.

The FDA is well known for doing this. Monsanto, EPA, and so many others have done things that were clearly illegal and outright wrong, but not many have noticed yet.

Perhaps I should provide a list of "FDA approved stuff" that had to be recalled because of harmful side effects.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Justice is an illusion.

justice is not like a piece of granite that you can hold in your hand, is an idea of equity and fairness, which are principles that allowed human beings to survive as communal, cooperative primates

this is important: our evolutionary survival is the result of numerous, essential and overlapping themes, cooperation being one of them

because we evolved as a cooperative species, we dont have the physical attributes needed to survive as single individuals in the natural world (or maybe its the other way around: because we dont have the physical attributes necessary to survive as individuals, we had to evolve in ways that maximized our abilities to cooperate)

either way, in order for our species to survive, we needed to develop societies that were basically functional and self sustaining aka societies based on cooperation which can exist indefinitely

there is an optimal range of justice within which a society thrives, or at least a minimum amount of justice necessary for a society to continue to function indefinitely, just like there is an optimal range of temperature necessary for humans to live in, with minimum and maximum extremes on either end

being clever and resourceful, we can invent methods to extend our tolerances when confronted with the extremes of both temperature and injustice, but only so much

and in the case of justice, the society will collapse into absolute chaos beyond a certain threshold

so, while justice is not real in the same way that a piece of granite is real, so that you can hold it in your hand and smack someone with it, justice is very real in the sense that its presence or absence can be a predictor of survival

and i would say that for me personally, as i am unable to escape my own frame of reference, life and death and those things which promote them are more real -to me and for me- than any piece of granite

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I have no illusions .

are you certain this is true?
if you did harbor some illusions in your beliefs, how would you be able to identify them?

this just seems an overconfident claim to make. im pretty opinionated myself, and i might be confident of any given claim at any given moment, but i couldnt bring myself to insist that theres no way that i could be wrong about anything that i believe in the general sense. the way that i understand things, if someone says "i have no illusions" that person is almost certainly expressing an illusory belief about their own infallibility

did i misread your context?

Yabuturtle wrote:

Trisskar wrote:

Maybe Sam felt it was dishonest to say that his
salve was not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease when, of course, that
is exactly what his salve is for.

As an herbalist myself (And one in the business of selling salves in the near future) I can attest to the fact that the salves and other products used DO NOT CURE OR PREVENT ANY DISEASE

Ahem

Sounds to me like (if you read the article) this Amish man had in fact known the proper structure and use of selling herbal products and chose to ignore it for quite some time....so the FDA took action.



It's really quite simple.....If you plan to open up a shop, sell things that effect a persons health (no matter how small), and do it en-mass.....then one should put forth the extra effort to meet laws accordingly or suffer the consequences.

The FDA did not take action. They overstepped their bounds. Even when he changed the label they threw him in JAIL for this. The guy was not hurting anyone. The salves were not dangerous and I have used it before. A lot of FDA approved stuff doesn't cure anything and has harmful side effects. I know this because I have personally dealt with their drugs and others have well. They have it in their mind that anything not FDA approved will do harm/and cannot cure anything unless it is a drug. Salves have worked on me.

The FDA is well known for doing this. Monsanto, EPA, and so many others have done things that were clearly illegal and outright wrong, but not many have noticed yet.

Perhaps I should provide a list of "FDA approved stuff" that had to be recalled because of harmful side effects.

Again. If you read the article objectively, you will see that the label changes still did not provide the appropriate warnings and information required.

I am no fan of the FDA's approved and not approved lists and / or actions. But law is the law. Don't like it, then make positive changes the right way. Not blaming Americans for wanting their free rights and then not shooting FDA people which...by the way....is against the law.

I read the ingredients used in this mans products. And other than one or two herbs, they are not all that hot for the application intended. And one of them is BANNED all over the place and requires extreemly high caution in application (legally)

It dosn't matter if you think the use and application is good. Follow the damn law. Don't like the law, then do what it takes to change it....LEGALLY

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I have no illusions .

are you certain this is true?
if you did harbor some illusions in your beliefs, how would you be able to identify them?

this just seems an overconfident claim to make. im pretty opinionated myself, and i might be confident of any given claim at any given moment, but i couldnt bring myself to insist that theres no way that i could be wrong about anything that i believe in the general sense. the way that i understand things, if someone says "i have no illusions" that person is almost certainly expressing an illusory belief about their own infallibility

did i misread your context?

LOL as a matter of fact you did misread that out of context. I said I had "no illusions of proper appearance", not that I had no illusions.