Qualities of a Spiritual Leader

no offense to you baru, but im seriously dubious about the desire to be a spiritual leader; to me it just sounds like a rock-star fantasy but substitute "saving souls" and "guiding lost sheep" for "banging groupies" and "trashing hotel rooms"

in the strictest sense of the words, all it takes to be a "spiritual leader" is that you find people who follow you under the banner of "spirituality," (which can mean virtually anything) and theres never been a shortage of idolized gurus, cult leaders, and charismatic con men using that exact M.O.

jesus and buddha, according to the stories, had the power to do such things as walk on water, control the weather, and bring dead people back to life, so for anyone who wants to be a genuine spiritual leader, maybe learning how to do those things would be a good start

and if youre not able to do those things then maybe youre not cut out to be a "spiritual leader," and ought to settle for "relatively good person"

which was the unhappy realization that i myself had to accept when i hit my thirties and still couldnt set things on fire with my mind (but i also might be a special case of exceptional curmudgeonry and scoundrelism)

imo, a more reasonable focus would be on developing ones own emotional maturity, social acuity, and general life competence, and trusting that if this is done with sincerity and diligence that one's overall influence on the world will be positive

maybe it wouldnt hurt to find someone you consider a spiritual leader and learn from them directly?

if you really want to teach people hte things they need to know in order to live better lives, perhaps you should consider becoming a counselor or a therapist, or at least making a serious (academic level) study of the core theories and models of mental health and psycho-therapy; that would yield you a lot of practical life wisdom on what you could (and i do) call "the human spirit" and possibly open a whole new realm of professional opportunity

lastly, id mention that there is a ton of material available on the basic principles of leadership, and the general qualities often displayed by effective leaders across contexts/realms and that if you really want to be a good leader, it would be a good idea to study leadership itself

theres a lot of excellent information thats been produced on the subject and which will carry over into most areas of activity

good luck

I always enjoy your posts OB1.

OB1Shinobi wrote: maybe youre not cut out to be a "spiritual leader," and ought to settle for "relatively good person"

which was the unhappy realization that i myself had to accept when i hit my thirties and still couldnt set things on fire with my mind.

Relatively good person sounds good to me. I don't think "spiritual leader" (the real ones, not the posers) are inherently different from that, however, as "spiritual" tends to be simply a sort of "place holder" to separate the deeply "important" mundane things from the otherwise unimportant mundane things. But spiritual and mundane are within the same realms, separated only by labels.

I'm glad you cannot set things on fire with your mind, though. Less work for the firefighters. :laugh:

A good spiritual leader probably has exactly the same qualities of a good spiritual student!?!

baru wrote: I read there is a book called "Mark of a Spiritual Leader".
I believe the 6 marks of a spiritual leader, based on this book are as follows:

I am wondering, what do you think of these six points?

About the behavior, seen in trough the scope of qualities, Leaders select, show a task, followed by teaching the task, and eventually giving the task away. By managing, or not managing, their own tasks and other people their tasks they lead effectively for the greater good.

Spirituality on first sight can be seen as an individual and a 'social' concept, but if so, how can one lead one his individuality wile not doing it individual? 'Spiritual leaders' can pass on the religious system but not their own spirituality, I am not sure a spiritual leader exist outside one`s self. :blink:

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Tao 19 - Feng:

19
Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
And it will be a hundred times better for everyone.

Give up kindness, renounce morality,
And men will rediscover filial piety and love.

Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
And bandits and thieves will disappear.

These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in themselves.
It is more important
To see the simplicity,
To realize one's true nature,
To cast off selfishness
And temper desire.

Br. John wrote: On Teaching
~ Kahlil Gibran

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.

The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.

If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.

The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.

The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm nor the voice that echoes it.

And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.

For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.

And even as each one of you stands alone in God's knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth.

I've saved this quote. I think it provides a lot to think about in terms of being a teacher and also how to tell a good teacher from a bad one in many cases. Thank you Br John.

Tao 19 - Feng:

19
Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
And it will be a hundred times better for everyone.

Give up kindness, renounce morality,
And men will rediscover filial piety and love.

Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
And bandits and thieves will disappear.

These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in themselves.
It is more important
To see the simplicity,
To realize one's true nature,
To cast off selfishness
And temper desire.

i have got to ask what this means to people because most of it just sounds like gibberish to me

maybe it was self evident in ancient china but in modern english it seems like the kind of useless woo that people use to mystify and impress each other without ever actually learning anything

i guess i get the "dont be pretentious" part of the message but the whole "give up ingenuity and profit and bandits and thieves will disappear" just makes me cringe lol

without ingenuity and profit, bandits and thieves would disappear simply because there wouldnt be anything to steal or anyone clever enough to realize that they could steal it--- we'd all be equally stupid and poor, forever

maybe someone can enlighten me?

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Tao 19 - Feng:

19
Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
And it will be a hundred times better for everyone.

Give up kindness, renounce morality,
And men will rediscover filial piety and love.

Give up ingenuity, renounce profit,
And bandits and thieves will disappear.

These three are outward forms alone; they are not sufficient in themselves.
It is more important
To see the simplicity,
To realize one's true nature,
To cast off selfishness
And temper desire.

i have got to ask what this means to people because most of it just sounds like gibberish to me

maybe it was self evident in ancient china but in modern english it seems like the kind of useless woo that people use to mystify and impress each other without ever actually learning anything

i guess i get the "dont be pretentious" part of the message but the whole "give up ingenuity and profit and bandits and thieves will disappear" just makes me cringe lol

without ingenuity and profit, bandits and thieves would disappear simply because there wouldnt be anything to steal or anyone clever enough to realize that they could steal it--- we'd all be equally stupid and poor, forever

maybe someone can enlighten me?

The Tao Te Ching is a reminder of how things seen as bad arise mutually out of what we see as good. It's not telling you to do anything. It's putting both sides into an interdependent perspective for a larger understanding of why they exist.

Anytime you read the Tao Te Ching, keep the symbol above in mind, as that is what every verse is expressing in its commentary. White begets black, black begets white.

There's a bit of wisdom that says if someone seeks an office or place of authority, they should be barred from achieving it because it shows the wrong motives. Rather, the people best suited to these tasks tend to have this sort of leadership thrust upon them.

steamboat28 wrote: There's a bit of wisdom that says if someone seeks an office or place of authority, they should be barred from achieving it because it shows the wrong motives. Rather, the people best suited to these tasks tend to have this sort of leadership thrust upon them.

Amen to that! Leadership has no grey areas, you either have it or you don’t.

I've been in many leadership positions throughout life. I've never sought after them, and thoroughly expected someone else to be given the position. But I have personally seen those that aspired to be on the top never make it there, and those that never expected it become those on top (my sister comes to mind).

Spiritually, no one can aspire to become a spiritual leader. You can aspire to become a spiritual mentor I think, you can train for it, you can learn about it, but become an unquestionable leader is something you become, not work at.