The use of "Darkside" emotions

My studies of Jedi lore are far from complete. but being a Student of the Sith Code, Emotion is NOT the Enemy. Serenity is EXTREMELY overrated in the world we live in Passion is in short supply as is ambition and righteous indignation. The Darker Emotions are needed now more then ever

I'm quite sure by this point that many of us who have replied have hammered the same point with different wording.

Luthien wrote:

Adder wrote: Isn't it actions attributed to the label which define it? One feels anger because one feels like doing (insert action) because of (insert reason).

I disagree that one feels anger because one feels like doing something, but rather one does something because one feels anger and wants to do something about it. Actions attributed to the label are less about the emotions themselves and more about not holding oneself accountable for one's actions due to how they feel. Awareness of the emotion at least elicits focus and thus the decision to go one way or the other. What someone does due to their feelings isn't necessarily a reason to call it anything but what it actually is. The actions are what define or label something as whatever shade one puts onto it. Turning it around to make a positive change in order to alleviate the feeling is, in my mind, a better way to handle it.

For me the subtle distinction is how we identify the energy - being how we view its cause, because as soon as we do that then the range of possible resultant effect options fill the mind and, as you say, we have to decide what to do with it. For me what defines it is how we relate to the causative stimulus in identification not management, as otherwise the 'negative' emotions probably tie us down as reactionary and hands over too much authority to the subconscious in its animal pathways which we seem to have evolved up from.

I suppose, but I would throw in there that it might be more beneficial to identify with our primal/animal nature so as to better understand and control the outcomes. Coming from my own experiences with anger issues, I have found that instead of acting on them immediately or ignoring them, it's much better for me to redirect it into something fun and positive. Anger, fear, and hate tend to bring on a myriad of negative thoughts of hurt, thus the all too common lashings out. Coming from a psychological perspective, these emotions are a reflection of something not right in one's life, regardless of how temporary they are. Figuring out what is wrong and then ameliorating it has worked much better for me than doing something rash or trying to meditate them away (they never go away that way, anyway).

I think another problem some people have is running away from their emotions and not facing them, further making them worse at a later time, as has been mentioned in other replies.

I only humbly add my view point though; it is possible I missed something while reading through the thread so excuse me if it has been covered.

Emotions being placed in classifications of light or dark though easiest to humanly do and most useful to explain to ourselves morality in it's ideal form. I find it to be almost impractical though, as true events are always grey. Good and evil are only separate but equal view points which simply must exist for it's counter part too. Therefore, if we judge emotion as anything else than emotion it becomes an invalid study unless matched to actions of which it inspired. In this light, I see it as a necessity to understand the difference of emotion and action. Ironically both in moderation seems ideal to me (and matches to me the Jedi I choose to become). The light is accountable for the area which it leaves dark; while the dark is held in contrast to that which is in the light.

Emotions are simply a point on the light to dark scale one chooses to use as they create the painting of the life he or she wishes to live. Both will have their place, and in the end it is that placement that is most important but something I believe come naturally in time upon our journeys.

In Peace,
Tim

Of the 21 maxims.

Pure Motive: To act with motive and purpose.

Without a sound motive and purpose, action has no meaning, no destination and lacks a foundation. A Jedi moves with the Force, trusts in its ways. A Jedi’s actions are firmly based upon a deep motivation to be as their path dictates.

The use of any emotion without "pure motive" would be detrimental.

Of the 16 teachings

#2.Jedi maintain a clear mind; which can be achieved through meditation and contemplation. Our minds can become unduly troubled and concerned with the happenings of the world. We must work on overcoming our individual issues through training and diligence.

#3.Jedi are aware of the future impacts of action and inaction and of the influence of the past, but live in and focus on the Now. We let ourselves flow like water through the events around us. We embrace the ever changing and fluid world, adapting and changing as it does.

To act with pure motive one must maintain a clear mind. Accept that you have emotions, but do not let them rule you or make decisions for you. Act or don't act according to what is right and wrong. Our emotions cloud our perceptions. Walk forward deliberately with a clear mind and focus of intent and motive.

young children are often the most self centered and "dark side" creatures alive

we have to teach them to share, and to control their tempers, and to think about and respect the feelings and boundaries of others

if we dont, they grown into uncontrollable, selfish little monsters

getting our "dark side" emotions in check is literally the first step of growing into an adult

its a balance between, on the one hand, being honest with and accepting of ourselves, and on the other, facing the circumstances of our lives in intelligent and effective ways

the majority of the time, the so called "dark side" emotions will interfere with rational thinking and will result in impulsive and ultimately counter productive actions

sometimes we find ourselves in a situation where we have to assert ourselves with little or no regard to others, and its just as much of a character weakness if we are unable to do this when it is appropriate, as it is to be unable to restrain ourselves from doing so when it is not

The struggle is real!! Haha

Yes, in the spiritual sense of evolving the fullest possible extents of self - on one hand spontaneous presence is held to align with purity - but of course on the other, the view that the subconscious has a capacity to exert a functional dominance over the mind and bodies actions means that a spiritual path probably needs to be a process of working with the subconscious to mediate its 'powers' (IMO). Otherwise it run the risk of just resorting to being instinctual and inherently selfish in action. But the benefits of a pure childlike mind are probably having no preconceptions and therefore higher curiosity to drive perception.

I guess we could streamline cognition to minimize and make it efficient, to achieve the same sort of benefits without just being useless and childish!?


So in that framework, the concept of 'dark' seems best to represent those things which give power over to the subconscious. In terms of relating it ot the Force then, it could be for some expected benefit in another form - a manner of self sacrifice to achieve an internal alchemical process to manifest real results in some other form. And in that regard I think it has some value but a bit more of a personal aspect of ones path as it could start to include risks and require full self responsibility etc.
While 'light' becomes about mediating the relationship to the extent that it can reflect back in the same form and therefore be more integrated in its functional relationship of perception and self - to streamline efficiency and capability to realize a relative reduction in effort required to achieve the same output, which in turn also can bring greater depth of capability (in theory). If you viewed the mind as a snow speeder, the poor guy in the back is the subconscious and the bloke driving is the conscious - they need to work together and not sabotage each other - they both know what each one is doing and they both are stakeholders in both of them being helpful rather then harmful. If you annoy the guy in the back, he'll likely get you back in other ways or at the least not trust you as much going forward. Those would seem to be impediments, and I imagine this would range across the whole spectrum of lifestyle.

But to alter tack, the whole 'moral dualism' position seems moot to me... moot up to countering any established and entrenched cognitive dissonance - which tends to run the risk of being a bit circle jerkish unless we are talking about proper psychopathy, but I'm only guessing.

And then in the same way as moral dualism being on thin ground to me, I also think the sometimes associated concept of 'to be in balance' does not require exercising the full range of moral dualism - but rather being aware of the full range so to know where one is.... at which point the location becomes secondary to the direction made by ones intention and effort! Such that the concept of a grey Jedi ceases to exist, and one is either a Jedi or not, as to be a Jedi would mean to always be aiming to the moral light no matter where on the spectrum they might find themselves for external reasons such as job related duty, familial responsibilities or self preservation. That approach should sort of remove the problem some people have with the doctrine being so idealistic. I could be reaching a bit though as I do like a fair bit of idealism - in terms of preferring the carrot over the stick. So then balance in those terms becomes more about knowing the middle ground, and being able to move oneself to the light from any point along that spectrum - the capacity to have 'right focus' or 'right intention' as a persistent essence.

I just want to state, for my part, that I reject moral relativism as bankrupt form of ethics which inevitably becomes a philosophical enabler to do whatever you want. I reject the Potentium view that many Jedi currently accept, and I find it to be mostly fueled from a fear of appearing dogmatic. You cannot dismiss the simple, elegant wisdom that "Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, and Hate leads to Suffering" with games of semantics and appeals to anecdotes. Half the examples argued are contrivances, and the tragic personal anecdote of Trisskar feels like a heart-breaking misinterpretation of Jediism that her teaching master probably should have intervened against because no animal torturing rapist should be kept in anyone's life. I hate to even comment about it because it's like "how do you say anything without sounding like an ass", but if that's the case then it really shouldn't be used in a philosophical conversation because that's just a trap designed to shut people up.

When we talk about Fear, we're not talking about the sense of caution that aids our survival. We're talking about real, damaging fears that bring harm, particularly any Fear associated with attachment.

When we talk about Anger, we're not talking about righteous indignation. We're talking about blind wrath which clouds judgment and often causes people to lash out at one another.

I don't see how anyone justifies Hate. When I feel it, I realize how stupid it is, and I'm working my ass off to purge that from myself. Hate is not positive, it's a poison that only hurts you. No matter how you frame it, Hate is only ever a power that hurts yourself.

You guys trying super hard to push this moral relativism agenda seriously seem to be missing the point. Acting upon emotions is habit forming, pure and simple. The more you act upon Anger the angrier you're going to become as a person, that's a fact. The more you act upon Compassion the more compassionate you become. Try doing both. It won't work. Many of these pathways are mutually exclusive. Fear, Anger, and Hate are all grouped together as Dark Side emotions because they all are destructive in the long term and they are all pathways that feed into one another. Patience, Compassion, and Serenity are all constructive in the long term, and they also feed into one another hence why they're grouped together as Light Side emotions.

The nuances about learning when and how to act come with time and experience. Building the pathways is only the beginning in a longer process. In the world we live in, the World of Being and Time, there absolutely is a Light and Dark Side of the Force. Our limited perception and personal feelings against the seeming indifference of nature leads us to believe otherwise, but that is because of our place in the Cosmos. Most certainly we live in a world ruled by the Law of Polarity, and therefore the truth is some things are binary. The truth doesn't change based on our ability to accept it.

Accepting this wisdom is hard. People are afraid they'll be judged, so they rigorously seek to justify their rejection. The reasonable, skeptical folks will find themselves at the mercy of the Dunning-Krueger Effect. I myself have been down this path, so I know how it all goes. On the other side of it I am sure of only two things. First, so long as we are alive, we're bound up in the Force of opposites like the Light and Dark Side. Second, we cannot overcome the limits of this world until we accept them and acknowledge our participation in them.

We are born with a left hand, and a right hand. Historically the left is perceived as sinister, while the right is not. Does this mean left handed people are sinister? Of course not. What of a right handed person that loses use of that hand? They are then forced to learn to use the left or depend on others.

I agree that anger/hate/rage are self destructive and their use is not something I push, however I also do not condemn others for using them. We work with the tools we have available...

Love and compassion are things I have next to no experience with, this does not mean I cannot see their value nor understand it (I do, they're just devices I lack experience with). Anger and hate were vital to my survival as a child, without them I would not have been strong enough to withstand the physical or psychological abuse I was subjected to, nor the bullying...

Every tool has its use, and sometimes we can use a tool for something it wasn't intended for. Love and hate are the same way. They counter AND compliment each other...a forest fire destroys, but out of that destruction new life blooms...