The use of "Darkside" emotions

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7 years 1 month ago #274275 by MadHatter
In the recent thread on Trump the concept of the usefulness of hatred, vengeance, anger, and other "Darkside" emotions came up. So rather than derail the thread further I decided to start this one and address my thoughts as well as a post made within the Trump thread. So the first thing is, to sum up, my thoughts on this matter then I will move to the post I wish to address.

So when it comes to powerful darker emotions like anger or hate or fear I think most often it's best not to act upon them. The reason being is that often you are not rational and just acting on the emotion as to no thought to the results of it. So the results are typically negative. For example, if you see someone acting in a way that upsets you but does not actually impact you should you say something? Well, can you do so without causing further trouble and with a productive end in mind? If you can't say yes to that then its not likely wise to act. Better to sit silent and find other ways to vent the feeling.

Should we always fail to act on these emotions? No. that is not my point at all. For example, if someone keeps calling you by a name you dislike be it a nickname or a shortened version of your name then speaking up and even doing so with emotion in your voice can impact the positive change of stopping the offending behavior. However taking the exact same emotionally motivated action the first time it happened might well be overboard if you let the emotion take hold over logic. So it might, in that case, be best to still your tongue and act when peace, not emotion rules you.

The basic premise here being that it's far too easy to make errors of judgment and go to far or cause needless pain when you let these emotions guide what you do. It's far wiser to master them and act only when a cooler head prevails or in lieu of that act only when you can see a positive or sensible outcome from the actions taken. So while we can acknowledge an emotion we do not need to act on it and can often find more productive outlets than allowing it push us to lash out. Those are my views on the matter but please I'd like outside opinions even if counter to my own.

Now on to the post I wish to address:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Hate is part of our emotional makeup and you can deny it all you want but you cant deny the fact that you sometimes feel it. This is something beyond our choice, just like loving someone is. It just happens whether you want it to or not. Now we can either acknowledge that fact and learn to embrace it and utilize the passions that emerge from these emotions in a balanced way towards productive ends or we can suppress them or allow them to run unchecked which only leads to our eventual destruction. (not only physical but also emotional, psychological etc)

I do believe that all life is sacred but that does not also mean that all life gets to live. Nature is cruel and indifferent to our plight. We all must accept the consequences of our actions good or bad, and in that, some things also don’t deserve to live. Vengeance is a component of this philosophy. The most prominent example of this is the death penalty. Some people are judged unworthy of continuing in this life due to heinous acts committed against others and they are put to death. This is a philosophy I support.

Denying these things does not make them not exist. For me, I see our entire range of emotion as an array of resources that we need to learn to use in productive ways. I see no part of that array as “evil” or as components of our psyche that we need to eradicate or suppress. ;)


I see vengeance as an emotional response and not a valid motive to act upon most of the time. What we should strive for in the court system is punishment, not vengeance. Punishment in my view is impartial as possible and best met out by a third party not involved in the case. This prevents emotion from ruling the situation and things from going overboard. To say that some life is not worthy of continuing is a risky mindset and one that is a perfect example of why emotions, when unchecked by logic, can be so dangerous. To demonize, to make less than human is something that leads to more injustice than justice and that is something we should strive to separate ourselves from.
We do not need to suppress our emotions to not act upon them. We can acknowledge how we feel without letting it push us into risky waters. That is why we must let emotion be second to logic and balanced. When we can't do this its best to not act and either let the thing pass or to let a third party pass the judgment so that we do not take things beyond what is reasonable and just.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can

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7 years 1 month ago #274283 by
Replied by on topic The use of "Darkside" emotions
Why do you relegate your opinion to only "darkside" emotions? Cant we damage a situation, or others, or even ourselves with unchecked "lightside" emotions as well? By this same thinking if we hold lightside emotions in a high positive regard but acknowledge that they have the power to also destroy, then does it not make "logical" sense that darkside emotions we typically hold in a high negative regard also have the power to be quite productive?

How do you even separate the two - lightside from darkside? This sort of thing had been debated by philosophers for centuries, what exactly are negative or positive emotions. Defining what category an emotion fits into is a difficult task. Emotions like fear, anger, joy, grief, hatred, or love seem pretty obvious on the surface. But what about things like curiosity, disgust or amusement, interest, embarrassment or sexual attraction? Some will categorize these on one side and some on the other. Others like Hume divide the emotions differently into calm emotions and violent passions. This splits the line between traditional “dark and light” emotions. Calm emotions include a sense of beauty and conformity, while violent ones include love, hatred, grief, joy and pride.

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7 years 1 month ago #274285 by MadHatter
The reason I regulate this opinion to Darkside only is two-fold. The first and most important is that I only wanted to address this one aspect in this thread. The second is that it's far more rare to do vast harm with "light side" emotions than it is darker ones. For example, if I have a flash of compassion for someone and act on it without thought it's far less likely to cause harm to me or anyone else than a flash of hate or anger and even when it does cause harm its likely in far lesser degrees. As far has how to break down the emotions into light or dark I could write an entire paper on it and it would still only be my thoughts. Though it's likely to have wide common ground for most people

As far as the dark aspects of our nature being productive it's far less likely for that to be true and far more risky to allow it. Blind hatred is almost never productive even when put towards productive ends like say stopping Hitler. The reason being is it's far too easy to become blinded by it and go with a salted earth approach that is just way to far.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can

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7 years 1 month ago #274289 by
Replied by on topic The use of "Darkside" emotions
The very first and most important mistake here is the labeling of emotions.

Calling something "Darkside" instantly puts a very negative air around a perfectly natural living response. In fact it is not only placing a negative connotation on something Natural....but it is also misrepresented especially since "Sides of the Force" is quite commonly agreed to not even be a thing. It is pretty commonly agreed that there is no "Sides" so saying something is "Darksided" is contradictory ;)

Second important mistake is the instant stand off-ish attitude towards certain emotions because they have very strong responses and reactions as well as consequence if used inadaquetly.

It is then important, I feel, for us to consider the USEFULNESS of these misunderstood emotions.

Fear: Is a survival mechanism built within our very core to keep us healthy, happy, safe and most importantly...Alive.

Anger: Gives us the ability and push that one needed to act upon their fears rather than remain rooted in spot and thus harmed or worse.

Hate: Allows us the chance to develop boundaries and expectations to avoid becoming fearful and angry in the first place. It is the mode that says "I refuse to live in this scenario."

Much like.....Purging your facebook friends list because you had enough of their BS ;)

See? Not so darksided after all ;) Perfectly natural and extremely important. So yes. We should most assuredly not only Act upon them....but accept them as apart of our very existence and being.

However

As Jedi we seek out knowledge, wisdom and training that allows us to put strong chains upon these natural survival mechanisms and choose the method of our "Actions" based on our learning and training.

Such as restraining yourself from insulting and hurting someone for making you scared and angry in the first place.

Nothing in life exists within one singular emotion. Nor are any of your "Reactions" based on just one electrical jolt within your nervous system.

Instead it thrives in a cascading effect of many emotions for each and every event you encounter and face.

In a sudden intake of breathe you become fearful
That fear transcends into anger
That anger hands off into hate
that Hate expels out into an irritated but slow exhale
Irritation transfers into a strained mid breath
strain melts away as your breath ends
And upon the new breath, you enter into calm thinking and/or reaction

The more we are able to see things broadly, the more we can accept the positive of precieved negativity.




Vengeance is a different thing entirely. It is not an emotion but a chosen action based on moral judgment towards an event that you responded to and could not let slide.

Vengeance is not the Jedi Way and it is not a favored response.

It is a natural, expected, and sometimes acted upon response. No human is perfect. We all slip from time to time.....

but not favored.

Kyrins example of the Death Penalty holds truth and it is deffinatly a method.....But as Jedi I should hope we can put those emotions aside and make unbiased decisions of Justice for the greater good based on logical decisions rather than emotional ones.

IE: A person is a known mass murderer and has vowed to continue his murdering spree if let go and keeping him alive is causing harm to the good people working for society rather than against. This is a logical response not an emotional one.

Just my thoughts :)

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7 years 1 month ago #274295 by MadHatter
The use of labels is a tool we all use. And most often the negative link is there for a reason. Anger as we know it is 9 times out of 10 not good or even useful. Most people get angry when cut off in a conversation when someone takes the last soda in the fridge when our day gets interrupted. In short, a bunch of petty things that acting upon out of anger will do us little to no good. Further even in more extreme situations such as a fight anger is risky. Get blinded by it and you make a mistake that will get you hurt.
Basically, those that I label as dark are most often not useful to act upon in the moment and risky to let push us in any direction. They are the ones that most need chains of reason, time, and distance placed upon them. It does not mean they are never useful just not often in their raw form.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can

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7 years 1 month ago #274298 by
Replied by on topic The use of "Darkside" emotions

MadHatter wrote: Anger as we know it is 9 times out of 10 not good or even useful.


My ex husband was mentally abusive. He a....unique...character. He would make small electrical circuts and to check their electrical currency he would zap my cat multipule times until you could smell burnt fur and flesh. He would toss her up into the rafters and force sex upon me and when he got angry would forcefully destroy things (ripped apart a cell phone peace by peace and smashed in many things)

But I was a Jedi...and kept trying to find the good in him....to give him the benafit of the doubt....to keep positive and happy thoughts....

Until eventually I allowed myself to get pissed off. I got angry. And I used that to stand up to him and suggest he re-evaluate the things he really wanted in life because clearly it wasn't me. To this day I hate him and will never allow myself to seek him out or be near him should he try to find me. Cops will certianly be called should that ever happen (likely wont XD )

Point is....Love, Kindness and Understanding can be just as horrible as Anger and Hate. And Anger and Hate can be the most postive thing to have happened in your time. If it wasn't for these helpful emotions....who knows where myself and my cat would be right now.

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7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #274301 by MadHatter

Trisskar wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Anger as we know it is 9 times out of 10 not good or even useful.


My ex husband was mentally abusive. He a....unique...character. He would make small electrical circuts and to check their electrical currency he would zap my cat multipule times until you could smell burnt fur and flesh. He would toss her up into the rafters and force sex upon me and when he got angry would forcefully destroy things (ripped apart a cell phone peace by peace and smashed in many things)

But I was a Jedi...and kept trying to find the good in him....to give him the benafit of the doubt....to keep positive and happy thoughts....

Until eventually I allowed myself to get pissed off. I got angry. And I used that to stand up to him and suggest he re-evaluate the things he really wanted in life because clearly it wasn't me. To this day I hate him and will never allow myself to seek him out or be near him should he try to find me. Cops will certianly be called should that ever happen (likely wont XD )

Point is....Love, Kindness and Understanding can be just as horrible as Anger and Hate. And Anger and Hate can be the most postive thing to have happened in your time. If it wasn't for these helpful emotions....who knows where myself and my cat would be right now.


The situation you mentioned, however, is not the norm. It is not common not in the sense of it being a standard experience for most people. Further, it was not even standard as for things that might make a person angry in the course of a person life. I was abused myself however that abuse despite lasting for a good while is not the standard thing to make me angry. The various mail/package delivery services making me angry is common but not abuse similar to what I once suffered. Further, as someone that was abused and has worked with people who have been abused, I know that the anger that caused positive change can just as easily be used to validate actions we might regret forever. That is my point. That most often anger is not useful in its raw form. It's most often something we need to forge in the furnace of logic and bind with chains of forethought before we let it guide us. In the raw natural state, it's more often going to cause more harm than good. Love, compassion, understanding are far less likely to cause harm and need far less caution behind them.

Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
Last edit: 7 years 1 month ago by MadHatter.

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7 years 1 month ago - 7 years 1 month ago #274307 by
Replied by on topic The use of "Darkside" emotions
I agree with Madhatter in regard to if you can't really control your negative emotions, it's best for everyone to not listen to them, despite how hard that can be.

However if you are able to control these "dark side" emotions, then they could be used (in moderation) for a greater good.

An example:
Let's imagine you see your friend being beaten up by someone. The anger you feel on behalf of your friend could be used to overthrow the attacker in a fit of adrenaline. However once that attacker has successfully been overthrown, a lid must be put over the anger.

If things like anger, hate and fear can be controlled, you can use them to succeed positively. The fear you'll fail the exam can make you study more; the anger at your friend being attacked can stop the attacker; the hatred you feel when someone says "you'll never be able to do that" can be the reason you push yourself further to achieve it.

But again, I stress, it could only work in moderation and with careful and strict control.

That's just my thoughts anyway! :p
Last edit: 7 years 1 month ago by .

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7 years 1 month ago #274322 by
Replied by on topic The use of "Darkside" emotions
What exactly makes an emotion of the "Darkside"? Is it opportunity? Undesired outcomes? Intent? Anger left unchecked provides this, of course, as does fear, but I don't think they're inherently dark. They are naturally occurring emotions that tell us that something is wrong. For those who dwell on them or do nothing about them, they harbor them and let them build until negative actions arise. It is possible and much more productive to take positive actions when they present themselves. Mindfulness, I feel, is the key to understanding them to use them as tools for change. If all one does is think about them, it seems that one becomes obsessed with the feelings and what they want to do to something or someone. If Jedi are to seek to understand, to console, to love, etc., then it would, in my mind, be much better to understand that emotions of all kinds are natural and that there isn't such thing as a "bad" feeling. At least that's my understanding of it. I feel as if your labeling the certain emotions as "Darkside" emotions connotes them as "bad".

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7 years 1 month ago #274323 by
Replied by on topic The use of "Darkside" emotions

Luthien wrote: Anger left unchecked provides this, of course, as does fear, but I don't think they're inherently dark.


Exactly. Which is why I said as Jedi we learn through knowledge and training to know how to respond to the emotion itself.

It is our actual response that determines a good outcome or a bad outcome.

Not the emotion itself.

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