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Is it too late now to say sorry ?? (bababingbingbingbingbing)
- Carlos.Martinez3
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09 Dec 2016 17:31 #267780
by Carlos.Martinez3
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Is it too late now to say sorry ?? (bababingbingbingbingbing)
My box is always open friend, feel free to use it. Keep seeking and never stop.
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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09 Dec 2016 18:54 #267802
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Replied by on topic Is it too late now to say sorry ?? (bababingbingbingbingbing)
I have no idea what’s going on here…
I’ve been a member for a few months and have been intermittently active as time allows. Needless to say, I was surprised and a little disturbed to see this rather personal dialogue on a public forum. Public forums can get brutal rather quickly.
From what I’ve gathered, a political pot-stirring has occurred followed by a social exclusion of the offender and a subsequent readmission of such offender with a self-initiated public apology. The apology has been, more or less, graciously accepted with notes of caution from the active leadership here at the temple. I find this interesting in two ways: the choice made by leadership and the offender to keep this conversation public, and the tone of response to the offender by the leadership.
Prior to my conversion to Jediism I’d been an active part of the inner workings of church polity since my earliest memories, having several practicing ordained ministers of various Christian ilks in the family and having performed various roles of administration and ministry myself. Churches can be incredibly cruel, childish and messy in their polity. I have no idea how things ensued behind the scenes, but if the public responses of both the offender and the leadership is any indication then I am impressed by the level of maturity of both parties. Even though I recognize that there may be an unstable pattern on the part of the offender, I also appreciate that he is trying and that the leadership seems to recognize that trying. I would hardly call the responders’ replies “chilly,” rather “cautiously compassionate” with a strong emphasis on orthopraxy being expected from the offender. (In other words: “We care about you, and we want to forgive and include you but “the proof is in the pudding.”)
I have no reason to be involved in this conversation other than the interesting fact this this is a public forum. Despite that, I would like to respond also.
Offender: I’ve seen many people, and have had many friends, who struggle with following through on a sincere apology and a professed “turning over of a new leaf.” Keep trying to do the right thing, and also try to understand how others might be frustrated with a lack of follow through, regardless of your sincerity. Don’t expect apologies to work, regardless of how sincere they are; it is true that only demonstrable action will result in a regaining of trust. Don’t throw in the towel; follow through takes a lot of self discipline, and that is usually quite difficult. It is something to be respected that you keep on keeping on. Keep including yourself in the group, but above all: REMAIN TRULY HUMBLE in all that you contribute.
Leadership: I am impressed by your compassion and your balanced response to this offender. You will earn a great deal more respect by embodying your ideals and by responding in similar fashion to this offender’s repeat offenses, which quite realistically may happen as he continues to struggle with this difficult hurdle of his. Please continue to be patient with him.
I’ve recently held the Temple of the Jedi Order as an example to a class of new healthcare providers. There are many who have a great deal of difficulty finding a sociospiritual community for a variety of reasons: mental issues (such as shyness, social disorders, or other issues like autism spectrum), lack of physical proximity to like-minded congregations, lack of time or timing for physical attendance, or physical handicap issues to name a few. Online communities such as World of Warcraft have been shown to help some people with issues of suicide, social isolation, hopelessness, and lack of purpose. TotJO goes a step further by taking its community seriously, by offering trained ministers, by offering sincere inclusion (which is severely lacking in many faith communities) and by encouraging and facilitating further learning and personal spiritual growth. Patients at risk for issues mentioned above (hopelessness, despair, spiritual atrophy, social isolation) might traditionally be referred to local churches or pastors, but some populations are unable to access these critical community resources. TotJO provides a special mode of access to this underserved population.
When I first saw this forum post I was fearful that I might have been wrong: that TotJO might instead be another online community rife with bickering and political conflict from childish leadership. I was worried that I might be embarrassed as other university professors explored this new spiritual community as a possible resource for so many spiritually starved people. I’m very grateful that the leadership has proven otherwise with this public conversation.
I sincerely and deeply thank you (and ALL of our congregants!) for your mature leadership, and for your hard work in maintaining this virtual space of support for personal learning and growth!
I’ve been a member for a few months and have been intermittently active as time allows. Needless to say, I was surprised and a little disturbed to see this rather personal dialogue on a public forum. Public forums can get brutal rather quickly.
From what I’ve gathered, a political pot-stirring has occurred followed by a social exclusion of the offender and a subsequent readmission of such offender with a self-initiated public apology. The apology has been, more or less, graciously accepted with notes of caution from the active leadership here at the temple. I find this interesting in two ways: the choice made by leadership and the offender to keep this conversation public, and the tone of response to the offender by the leadership.
Prior to my conversion to Jediism I’d been an active part of the inner workings of church polity since my earliest memories, having several practicing ordained ministers of various Christian ilks in the family and having performed various roles of administration and ministry myself. Churches can be incredibly cruel, childish and messy in their polity. I have no idea how things ensued behind the scenes, but if the public responses of both the offender and the leadership is any indication then I am impressed by the level of maturity of both parties. Even though I recognize that there may be an unstable pattern on the part of the offender, I also appreciate that he is trying and that the leadership seems to recognize that trying. I would hardly call the responders’ replies “chilly,” rather “cautiously compassionate” with a strong emphasis on orthopraxy being expected from the offender. (In other words: “We care about you, and we want to forgive and include you but “the proof is in the pudding.”)
I have no reason to be involved in this conversation other than the interesting fact this this is a public forum. Despite that, I would like to respond also.
Offender: I’ve seen many people, and have had many friends, who struggle with following through on a sincere apology and a professed “turning over of a new leaf.” Keep trying to do the right thing, and also try to understand how others might be frustrated with a lack of follow through, regardless of your sincerity. Don’t expect apologies to work, regardless of how sincere they are; it is true that only demonstrable action will result in a regaining of trust. Don’t throw in the towel; follow through takes a lot of self discipline, and that is usually quite difficult. It is something to be respected that you keep on keeping on. Keep including yourself in the group, but above all: REMAIN TRULY HUMBLE in all that you contribute.
Leadership: I am impressed by your compassion and your balanced response to this offender. You will earn a great deal more respect by embodying your ideals and by responding in similar fashion to this offender’s repeat offenses, which quite realistically may happen as he continues to struggle with this difficult hurdle of his. Please continue to be patient with him.
I’ve recently held the Temple of the Jedi Order as an example to a class of new healthcare providers. There are many who have a great deal of difficulty finding a sociospiritual community for a variety of reasons: mental issues (such as shyness, social disorders, or other issues like autism spectrum), lack of physical proximity to like-minded congregations, lack of time or timing for physical attendance, or physical handicap issues to name a few. Online communities such as World of Warcraft have been shown to help some people with issues of suicide, social isolation, hopelessness, and lack of purpose. TotJO goes a step further by taking its community seriously, by offering trained ministers, by offering sincere inclusion (which is severely lacking in many faith communities) and by encouraging and facilitating further learning and personal spiritual growth. Patients at risk for issues mentioned above (hopelessness, despair, spiritual atrophy, social isolation) might traditionally be referred to local churches or pastors, but some populations are unable to access these critical community resources. TotJO provides a special mode of access to this underserved population.
When I first saw this forum post I was fearful that I might have been wrong: that TotJO might instead be another online community rife with bickering and political conflict from childish leadership. I was worried that I might be embarrassed as other university professors explored this new spiritual community as a possible resource for so many spiritually starved people. I’m very grateful that the leadership has proven otherwise with this public conversation.
I sincerely and deeply thank you (and ALL of our congregants!) for your mature leadership, and for your hard work in maintaining this virtual space of support for personal learning and growth!
Please Log in to join the conversation.