The more things change, the more they stay the same ...

1. Go meditate
2. Get some therapy
3. Read a book

~ that's grand !

This was good, Ros. And you're right, this fits with the Fisher et Perel in that Haley Quinn is telling us about the compulsion to "use" our outward experience - or presentation - of something that looks like love as a validation indicator ; just the term "relationship status" (à la Facebook) is sort of a tell-tale sign of how that has become an identity marker rather than an emotional expression.

Alexandre Orion wrote: is telling us about the compulsion to "use" our outward experience - or presentation - of something that looks like love as a validation indicator ; just the term "relationship status" (à la Facebook) is sort of a tell-tale sign of how that has become an identity marker rather than an emotional expression.

But is it really? Speaking only for myself....When I was making my facebook profile for the very first time I didn't mark "Married" so that I could validate that marriage or express it to others as a "Hey!! Seeeeeee?! Im Married!!" I marked it because it was simply fact. I was in fact married. And I was filling out an online profile that asked me if I was or not. Literally no other intention save to fill out the profile

What we do online or how we display our love has to always have some sort of Offline or Personal experance to motivate you to do, say and mark what you do. My love for my husband has lasted for 12 years. Years of emotional expressions that I hold great pride and joy in. The little things that I do during the course of these years are just that. Little acts of the whole.

Your happy exception, Trisskar, doesn't change the tide. In fact, I think research will speak to the fact that most people would rather be in a relationship, even if said relationship is ill-fitting than be alone and the reasons for this vary, but most come down to maintaining the "self" that they have constructed. The phrase "you complete me" isn't without some weight here. Also, I think there is social pressure to maintain this identity.

In the US (generally) we pride ourselves on being individualistic, but we also have the luxury, or the misfortune (depending on how you look at it) of having been raised on the happily ever after of Disney. People are looking for the "perfect" one. Or looking to "be" the perfect one, we marry to fit the mold of happy couple, but then, like the second video spoke on, we stray, but we stray because we realize that this one (whatever relationship we had created) did not make us "more" the self we wanted to be. It takes a truly aware person to know that "no" relationship will do that.

Rosalyn J wrote: Your happy exception, Trisskar, doesn't change the tide.

I truly do not think my "Happy Exception" is as 'exception' as is being suggested here. I know for a fact I am not the only one with a long lasting relationship that we actual enjoy and are proud of.

In fact, I think research will speak to the fact that most people would rather be in a relationship, even if said relationship is ill-fitting than be alone

Correct. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a larger influence than the small gestures we make online. Marking yourself as "Married" or "In a Relationship" or slogans on dating site....These gestures are minuscule coincidences of today's society compared to what is actually happening to you, in person, and in flesh. Happy or not. Back in the day before computers we used to carve our names on rocks and trees with hearts and plus signs as a result of our current fantasy. All of which are linked to a greater physical expression. Not just a brief moment of advertising. There is a REASON for the Action which is linked to ones experience.

In the US (generally) we pride ourselves on being individualistic, but we also have the luxury, or the misfortune (depending on how you look at it) of having been raised on the happily ever after of Disney. People are looking for the "perfect" one.

I notice people tend to enjoy blaming Disney for Alot of things. Its Disney's fault that we want the perfect happily ever after. Its Disney fault that girls should like pink and boys like blue. Its Disney's Fault!! God damn you Disney with your evil micky Mouse!!

When in actuality I feel the pressure is not in the cartoon shows we grew up in and instead comes from our peers past expectations.

Back in my grandparents day it was proper that a woman stays home, minds the kids and house while the father went out and worked. In my grandparents day it was proper that the woman has dinner ready just before the husband returns and ensures the kids are ready and disciplined to welcome him home with quick brief hugs and "seen not heard" behaviors. In my grandparents day girls wore dresses. Not pants. Girls had sex AFTER marriage not before. And it was a SIN to get divorced happy or not. All of which were grilled into me at every chance they had to "Educate" their grandkids.

These pressure came from my Grandparents.

Not Disney.

And to be more specific. These pressures came from my grandparents RELIGIOUS Beliefs of their grandparents. Not Disney.

The pressure social expectations changes per generation, with the evolution of human conditions. But that dosn't wipe out the past requirements....it only causes it to fade out slowly as the old generation dies off one by one. Which means my advanced beliefs evolved from my parents and grandparents belief will still have remnants in my teachings to my daughters.

AKA : I still teach my daughters to be proper and lady like. I still teach them it is important to maintain a clean household and develop old skills such as cooking, sewing, and house cleaning. I expect of them what my grandparents expected of me....I am just not so strict about certian aspects (like sex before marriage or devorse.)

Even to this day, we are all raised to believe the fury of god will come down and smite us for sinning. And if the only way we can go out, have a good time with someone else in bed - without being sinful. Is to get married....Then lets tie that knot as quickly as possible so that we can get down with the do!

It is my belief that it is not so much our self Identity we are struggling with And instead our chains of religious and cultural laws.

* I married my first husband not because I loved him...but because I needed a State ID Card so that I could get a Job. A Job that would give me money. Money that would give me a roof over head and food in my tummy. Our state Laws Forced me to get married.

* I held off on divorcing my husband a year or so AFTER he left me ....... Because the laws require you to go through hell to divorce. It took me half a year to finalize all of the process's required to cut ties with a man that Mentally Abused me. Not because I didn't want to be alone.

>>> In fact once the divorce was complete the attorney that was assisting me told me a large percentage of the divorces she handled were people who married for Identification purposes and that I could be happy in knowing that I wasn't alone in the problems I faced.

* I legally married my second husband not because I didn't want to be alone......But because the Laws demanded that, if I wanted to be on his Insurance in order to save on thousands of dollars for giving birth to our daughter.... I HAD to be legally married and have a marriage licence.

* I have a friend that married a 30 year old virgin. She was a virgin because that was the laws of her religious beliefs. They married so that she could have sex with him without guilt of betraying her god.

* I have two other friends who are having a horrible time with their relationship right now....They have been with each other about as long as I have with my husband....but unlike my husband and I. They are not at all happy. But they are also stuck. They can't just shake hands and say "It was great while it lasted." Nor are they stuck together because they don't wish to be alone....... They are stuck because they have four kids and the legal fall back on that separation will be devastating to the both of them. And they know it. So they are forced to tolerate each other for their own kids and their pocket books.


Obviously I and those I know are not the standard But I do feel that the problem of Religion and Law are often swept under the table in favor of some mystical mental cause of actions when it is more than likely a cause the very things we sweep away.

Why is it that we believe we should be the only one? Why do we believe that one man should be our everything? Why do we feel hurt when we are not his everything? Because, in my views, we are conditioned to believe that it is sinful and against the law of the land to allow for more than 1 wife and 1 husband

tzb wrote: As someone in a very happy 18-month (and counting) relationship with someone I met on a dating site... I'd like to voice my disagreement

As our Temple demonstrates, virtual interaction can be just as meaningful as physical interaction. It just takes a leap of faith that a digital expression, a digital experience of the Other can be as authentic as a meatspace one.

I'm in my 6th year of marriage with my wife from online dating. The means of communicating may have changed some, becoming a part of a different community(online) vs walking around my neighborhood or barhopping may have changed, but all the interactions after meeting are the same.

I'm sorry, I was unclear ... This wasn't supposed to have been a discussion on how we've met our partners, but in how technology has impacted our approach to relationships ? How have our conceptions/perceptions changed ? Have we ameliorated our chances/risks, or amplified our anxiety ?

I'm thinking of this with regard to Scilla Elworthy too ... (the "invisibility" factor) :pinch:

I should clarify that I am not currently in a relation either online or off, and have never had a relationship with someone that I have met online but I am nonetheless curious about something:

To those here, and elsewhere, that suggest it doesn't really matter where people meet (ie online or offline), how do you know that?

I appreciate that as Tellahane mentioned, once the initial online introduction has occurred and a meeting has taken place in person, the rest is all the same. But how can you know that the end result isn't different than if it had all occurred in person? Ie. in what way did the beginning of your relationship have of an influence other that merely acknowledging the others existence?

When we meet in person we form opinions of them based on their looks/age/style etc. We form those opinions before even speaking to the individual and so can often write them off as a love interest before we really know them. Online we can only judge the individual on their words, and so we have already accepted them as a potential partner before seeing/hearing them. Do you think that had you perhaps met in person originally that things would have played out differently?

Brick wrote: Do you think that had you perhaps met in person originally that things would have played out differently?

Nope.

Here is why....((And obviously only speaking for myself))

Despite how your opinions form from your online interactions......Meeting them offline is like meeting them for the first time all over again. When I first met my Ex offline it was like those 3 or so years online never existed. He was a complete stranger and I had to relearn on the things I liked about him....but with the physical expressions on top.

The same goes for casual friendships. Like when I meet new Jedi at Gatherings. There are many I have spoken with as friends online.....but when that offline interaction finally presented itself....It was all new.

The only difference is

The introduction gap is less of a problem. In real life you might have a private love affair without them ever knowing because you have yet to work up the courage to go over there and say "Hello" Online....That bridge was crossed without the awkward blushing, goofy smiles and fumbling over vocal words haha And even then....Such things are like to happen despite your online experience together.

The biggest thing that Technology has changed.....Is the distance it creates from personal community and support structures. When you meet someone across the country and one of you move out to be close to the one you fall in love with....you leave your family and friends far behind....your support structure becomes lost...and your consequences of choices become more difficult to mange. (At least that is how it is for me. I havn't seen my family in nearly 14...15 years.....)

Happily married 10yrs. Met online in IRC, not through a dating site. I tried every dating site available at the time but they all have one thing in common: They get paid by singles so their only motivation is to keep you single. Once you're mated, you go away and stop paying...

Alexandre Orion wrote: I'm sorry, I was unclear ... This wasn't supposed to have been a discussion on how we've met our partners, but in how technology has impacted our approach to relationships ? How have our conceptions/perceptions changed ? Have we ameliorated our chances/risks, or amplified our anxiety ?

I'm thinking of this with regard to Scilla Elworthy too ... (the "invisibility" factor) :pinch:

Technology has not impacted the way i fall in love , with regards to the fact that one can fall in love with a online picture uses as an avatar off course , when i was young i fell in love with Plastic Bertrand , and had a poster of him on my wall , in real life he was a lot uglier , but that did not hold me back from having a crush , so , no nothing has changed there. People still fall in love with the idea of someone.

About amplifiying anxiety i can only say that the "exposure" has increased and with that maybe the anxiety , other than that , my daughter faces the same challenges as i did her age , only , her playingfield is the world now and not the village or town as most of us was or is.

I dont think technology can impact a relationship , that is off course if you dont fall in love with your play toys instead of your partner