If you can't explain it to a 10 year old...

JamesSand wrote:

or a Backhoe

I don't know your background, but I hope you're giving the incredibly complex nature of something that uses signicant amounts of mechanical, fluid, and chemical engineering enough credit in the "how hard to explain" stakes.


(Otherwise "Big magic Shovel" more or less works)

I use one all the time, and while I do farm out the maintanence to a shop, it is only due to tools and time... I COULD work on it, but, they also have experience, and thus, work on it by them takes less time than by me... lol...

For me, it is a relatively easy thing... But, Im going on over 10 years around one...

But again, if I was to talk to a mechanic who works on them all the time, I would look like a Playskool, backhoe operator...

lolol....

Well, Jestor, to be realistic, from what I can tell about you, you wouldn't be the kind of guy to say that the way you undertand the Force is the way the Force actually is. So if the topic is your understanding, you will be well able to explain that to me insofar as you are yourself clear about what your understanding is exactly. Sure, I might pry as to how you came to your understanding, and that may leave us to a point where you'd admit that it is down to just believing as you do and that of course never doesn't fail to satisfy. But then enough others are starting to talk about the Force itself right from the get-go (to use the same example), as if it was an actual thing one can study and learn about. Needless to say they have a far rougher time explaining any of that... :laugh:

The phrase that I've heard is "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

But I think 'simply' depends on who you're talking to.

I don't think there's a way of explaining complex charity tax rules to a 10 year old, but I can explain it in basic terms to my trainees and they'll understand the gist of what I'm saying. And if I can't explain it to them in basic tax and accounting terms then I obviously don't get it (just as well I do ).

Given the " Ultimate challenge, defining the Force" thread, and taking this topic into account...

Well, how then does this Temple of Jedi explain the Force in any comprehensive way to a student?

Are you even trying to understand it? Or simply using the " Its too big" and ambiguity, and vagueness as wisdom imparted?

How are you simplifying your understanding? Your study? And your ability to transfer proper study, and understanding?

Its certainly ok to admit you do not understand it enough, but that it not the same as not trying at all.

Given the Force for the majority will be a cornerstone of ones Jedi path, how then does it benefit to keep it so willingly vague, not only for others, but for yourselves as individuals as well?

Its common here to say " There is no right view" and all, and thats fine, but, do you as individuals even know your own view at all? Have you sought any refinement to even begin to see the larger picture you speak of?

We do not know everything about space, and its possibly infinite, but we are seeking to study it, and see whats out there to see. We(Humanity) make headway in understanding all the time.

I know its perhaps not the best comparison, but on the whole, the cosmos, in its entirety is at least as grand as what people say when they talk about "The Force"

Are you, and should you, be content with such "answers"?

Given that this is a place for Jedi to well, become Jedi...

I'd say for something of its nature it is the questioning which is the lesson, and that it perhaps may never stop. I'd suggest this because the brain seems to work really well when it is curious, from what I can remember....

Well.........

I know I'm sort of new around here, but its my opinion that not everything should require an explanation, and so some things aren't able to be translated easily in to words. Some things need to be defined on an individual level, and so need to be experienced by the individual. They don't give themselves over to definition because that definition is a personal one.

So how do you explain something like the force, to a ten year old no less? I'm not sure you should even try. Some things just need to be understood on a personal level that transcends our ability to phrase it in words. I think it was Joseph Campbell that said ( and I'm paraphrasing here pretty hard) that the best thing we could talk about, we can't put in to words, so we talk about the second best thing.

Man, I've been there. I spent years defining things, trying to understand, trying to explain it to myself. I stared at the mountain till it wasn't a mountain anymore. Then, after a while, it was just a mountain again, no further explanation was needed.

Don't ask me to explain any of that.............. :silly:

Merin Kyo Den wrote: So how do you explain something like the force, to a ten year old no less? I'm not sure you should even try. Some things just need to be understood on a personal level that transcends our ability to phrase it in words.

Well just to respond to that portion, don't think of it as a requirement to understand something we can't explain, but an acknowledgement that yes, we don't understand the force, so its hard for us to explain. Just because we can't really describe it to a 10 year old doesn't mean it doesn't exist, its just realizing that even we ourselves don't truly understand the forces' existence either. We have several good idea's, but we don't truly understand it in order to explain it etc.

Some day we will...just not yet. This was more to the point of realizing what you truly understand vs not, and maybe get you thinking about things to learn/research more about or work on etc.

Merin Kyo Den wrote: Some things just need to be understood on a personal level that transcends our ability to phrase it in words.

That's what poetry is for

I am not so sure i agree with the statment/quote. Here is why

While i agree that it is important to remember Simplicity in your methods of relaying information. Some things, I believe...Is not as simple as we would like it.

I can write fan fiction and stories. It comes naturally to me, just something I do as a hobby and I enjoy it alot.

I, however, couldn't explain exactly how one writes a good story to a ten year old in simple words beyond the cop out answer "Just keep practicing."

I can however, explain it with alot of time and many scenario's/examples until at least one of them....maybe....gets through to said 10 year old.

In other words. Experience is a form of knowledge, and no matter how many different ways you "Explain it" you can't replace experience.

You simply cant relay to a ten year old the emotional struggle of holding down a job, paying bills, and figuring out where you are going to get that $60 for that same 10 year old to take Riding Lessons at the local horse barn. That takes Experience to explain that kind of stress and hardship. Not words for a 10 year old to understand. Dosn't mean you, yourself, don't understand it though.

Just my thoughts.

I think we should always remember to keep things simple. But we must not pretend we are dumb or un-intelligent just because we can't relay experience to children or people outside of your own understanding.

Trisskar wrote: In other words. Experience is a form of knowledge, and no matter how many different ways you "Explain it" you can't replace experience.

That's exactly my thinking. Well put. Like Joseph Campbell said, you can explain a punch in the face, but you really don't understand it until you get punched in the face.