The loss of the secular state of Turkey

The night where democracy was at stake .Instead of the light coming back in the streets of the old Ottoman Empire the darkness set in and the sky will darken even more .

Not every coup is an attack on parliamentary law and not every tank in the square is one that turns his weapons against the people. It was the hour of restoration of democracy to free oxygen or the old story moving towards more autocracy .The words of some leaders who are excited about the loss of a brave part of the army showed ignorance in knowing historical responsibility.

The Turkish compatriots in free countries are welcome to celebrate the victory of Erdogan in freedom , showing the vulnerability of our society. It is an incompetent suppression of independent thought.The celebrations in the West of the free people shows a total lack of historical knowledge , real politics and real notion of human rights.

Democracy is raped again . The rebellious soldiers are heroes of what is now the past a Turkey that lived up to their constitution. There will be abuse of the night with fallen brave men and women. There are already reports of soldiers being beheaded ISIS style.

There are and will purges of the army, politics and civil society. The citizens' freedoms are curtailed. And the celebrating fools in the streets and on social media claim victory. Intellect , knowledge and courage are not given to everyone .

The true patriots are those who had the courage to stand up and not those who now fill the streets out of fear or other restrictions on their inaudible cry .Do they know what they are doing and where they stand behind ?
It is the darkest night in the 21st century of the beautiful historic Turkey . The future was and is at stake . A tragic defeat of fate. For the people there and for us. The country which occupies a key position in the region.

The stability is internally may seem restored but for the geopolitics its a loss and for the separation of church and state its a disaster.

Tonight freedom died and a new dictatorship is born.

May the Force be with the Turkish people now …

Source: Bernd Jan Tim-Keus

It's a bit scarey to consider the most powerful proponents of secularism being removed from the Turkish military!!

Adder wrote: It's a bit scarey to consider the most powerful proponents of secularism being removed from the Turkish military!!

I know :S and i have not heard back from 2 of my friends yet who are atheists , they were in danger anyhow but now its even worse..news of soldiers being whipped and tortured in the streets , people who are openly atheist being beaten for no reason other than not being muslim , flags of ISis being waved ...its scary indeed

This sounds like an emotionally charged and very biased article.

Is it from a reputable source? Have the facts been checked? Or is it a knee-jerk reaction to current turmoil in Turkey?

From what I've seen (and I've been following all night), things are still not settled and the coup attempt is still ongoing, though winding down. I think it's impossible to know yet the impact this will have on the country or its people.

I'm always weirded out when people claim to love democracy, unless of course it's Muslim dominant nation that makes no apologies for being such.

The people rose up and defended their elected government against the probable military junta.

Miss_Leah wrote: This sounds like an emotionally charged and very biased article.

Is it from a reputable source? Have the facts been checked? Or is it a knee-jerk reaction to current turmoil in Turkey?

From what I've seen (and I've been following all night), things are still not settled and the coup attempt is still ongoing, though winding down. I think it's impossible to know yet the impact this will have on the country or its people.

This is an article a good friend of mine wrote , the situation in Turkey is complex, Erdogan has been locking up people and shutting down papers that oppose him for a few years now , the constitutional law in Turkey stated that it should stay secular , the army had to guard that , so they revolted , Erdogan emprisoned at least two of my friends for opposing the sharia laws and two of my friends are still missing , and you are right , the coup was an emotional attempt to run over a government wich is no longer secular. But this is only the start i have heard , there are still enough Turks that want a secular state. But it seems that the people that choose Erdogan are in the majority. If that is the case , Erdogan will win and expand his power and Turkey will be a Islamic state , the people then have choosen. That also is democracy. When Bernd wrote this article the news here said the coup was over , and this is his reaction , and i agree with him , Erdogan is a Tiran , but if thats what the Turks want ...

Jamie Stick wrote: I'm always weirded out when people claim to love democracy, unless of course it's Muslim dominant nation that makes no apologies for being such.

The people rose up and defended their elected government against the probable military junta.

I understand , i have a problem with the not secular part though, i think state and religion should stay apart imo

MartaLina wrote:

Jamie Stick wrote: I'm always weirded out when people claim to love democracy, unless of course it's Muslim dominant nation that makes no apologies for being such.

The people rose up and defended their elected government against the probable military junta.

I understand , i have a problem with the not secular part though, i think state and religion should stay apart imo

It's valid for you to want a secular state. And I agree that this is likely the best form for the government to take, but the Turkish people elected Erdogan. And if they want more religion in their government, is it our business to tell them they can't? Or to support a violent military coup whose goal (however noble it was) is to destabilize the country's elected representatives?

How would you feel if your country's military, whose job is to protect you from outside threats, suddenly turned violently on your democratically elected government? Regardless of why they did it, is that really the most effective way to show displeasure at the state of the current political leadership?

Miss_Leah wrote: How would you feel if your country's military, whose job is to protect you from outside threats, suddenly turned violently on your democratically elected government? Regardless of why they did it, is that really the most effective way to show displeasure at the state of the current political leadership?

Probably not , and i truly get where you are coming from , but i also understand my friends who see their country turning into a dictatorship and they have nowhere to turn anymore, no more freedom of speech , as i said , it was a emotional coup and we have to see how this turns out , but it does show how desperate a part of the army were to do this coup. And how would you feel if you as an atheist were cornered more and more ? I mean how would we feel? We dont really know now do we ?

Edit: also the military also have to protect you against inside threats imo , as secularism was in the contstitution i would think that was something they had to guard as well