Of Mice and Cream (and "scandals")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud74XZOjG0o

It probably isn't controversial to say that people might be feeling a little disillusioned from some of the discussions which have been happening in the last few days. As a member of our Clergy and the Council I thought I might offer some words on this subject, and maybe I will be able to provide people with a perspective they will appreciate.

Things have happened which probably should never have happened at all. Behaviour which, one person described as leaving a "bad taste", was performed and this has understandably left some people upset. Maybe it has even led you to question your continued participation at the Temple? It seems it already has for at least one person...

But bad events serve as good lessons. What can we learn from this? What have we learned from this?

Well we know that after this came to light the person primarily responsible owned up to the situation - they could have remained silent.
We know that when people expressed their disapproval about the content the content on the website in question was changed - it could have been left as it was.
We know that the conversation about the whole topic has actually been pretty civil - there could have been childish flame wars.

Did we not have a mature discussion on the kind of Jedi values which would best be embodied in coming to an understanding of these topics?

When "scandals" happen they might make us question what "this Temple" stands for. But you know what? YOU are all a part of this Temple, when we talk about stuff like this and you express your discontent, well that's what the Temple stands for too.

Do we not all make mistakes? And I think it is quite apparent that a mistake has been owned up to, we have only to look at the results of the feedback people gave. Jestor would say "We are practising Jedi, not perfect Jedi".

You think you can go to any community and there won't be the occasional scandal? Scandals will happen wherever we go, because each community is run by imperfect persons. What matters isn't so much the fact that there are scandals, but how those scandals are dealt with.

So which mouse will you be?

I want to be the mouse which churns these issues so much we can escape from them. There are so many amazing things we offer to each other through our shared community, there are also occasionally some not so amazing things. But this is a community which is in constant motion, constantly evolving and developing, it sure as hell didn't start out as perfection (trust me when I say things used to be wayyy crazier sometimes! lol).

Falling down teaches us how to pick ourselves up and this is one of those opportunities which allows us to take a step back and reconsider the nature of the community we want to forge going into the future.

And not to bribe you all or anything but there are some pretty awesome things coming in the near future. We are close to publishing a book which informs people of exactly what our Temple is about - something we haven't done in over five years. The Synod has been working on some changes to the Clergy which should help revolutionise and refine the nature of the service we provide.

It would suck if people took the bad from this situation and ended up missing out on all the good, on all the good that, as members, you too can play a part in forging.

What's happened has happened, what we can do now is decide how to tame the dragon which has been unleashed. Don't lose heart, show us what yours can do.

Thanks for the Post.

To be quite honest, as someone fairly new here, I have watched these proceedings and it has given me pause. I read the posts and the website and watched the pod casts. Honestly I felt the pod casts and the website attack just portrayed John and the temple as jealous and petty and looking like whining children. I perceived the whole thing as a personal attack on another individual and for me, I thought... "This is the internet?? Can anything someone else does really matter enough to warrant the abandonment of objectivity and beliefs like this"?

I did want to hear both pod casts and this Daniel fellow is well spoken and can weave a good tale. However when you look at his web site, it looks like a child put it together. Words are misspelled and the grammatical mistakes are everywhere. The content seems severely lacking as well. Its almost as if he doesn't even care about the material he is putting out as long as he can get people to pay for it. So in the end I was not impressed with him one bit. And this is not an attack, just my personal observations and opinions.

I will also say I have been highly impressed with the content and the people here at TotJO and have enjoyed my time here. But I can also say I have no interest in being a part of an internet war, even if I am in the conflict only by association. So I hope this is the end of it and all involved can let it go and we can get back to the business of becoming better Jedi. So for now I withhold judgement.

The Temple is a living organism , i dont cry all day when i hit my toe against something i get on with things, sometimes i whine and other times i bite through the pain. Its part of life , of learning how we deal with these trials. These lessons are valuable , this is a chance to grow and even if it is scary to think that things can take a turn for the worst , i for one am glad that i came here , i meet so many lovely people and people that challenge me to proceed and ponder and even meditate...me meditate , cant even sit still for 5 minutes loll.

I know there are people who get of on these scandals , and there are people who get discouraged , its a good way of finding out who is here for what

I am a Jedi and i am here to learn ...

Great post mate. I appreciate posts like this especially because I don't ever do much more than briefly skim topics like that - in this case I only know as much as I do because I wanted to read a specific comment and needed context, lol.

Personally I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that I don't really give a hoot about personal squabbles and politicking that may or may not occur here sometimes. You're quite right in saying that, at times, this sort of thing naturally happens within any organization. An argument could be made that it's easier for it to happen here, since our whole organization is built in the e-sphere, but regardless, it's not an enigma. Whenever an organization becomes even slightly complex - to say nothing of an organization which deals with the sort of subject matter we do here - it will end up having points of friction and contention.

I'm here 100% for reasons of my own, and I think that for most people who stick around despite encountering public moments like this, are probably of the same sort of mind regarding the Temple. I get something out of being here - an interaction and education I can't easily acquire elsewhere, maybe even a little bit of an identity that's meaningful and fun.

When I was younger, I remember having this vision of parents as perfect beings. I'm not sure if they were very good at hiding their flaws, or I was very good at putting them on a pedestal. I'm not complaining, they are awesome parents, always were, I had a great childhood. But I somehow felt alienated, as if I could never aspire to the kind of perfection they embodied. Only when they divorced did I get to experience my parents as human beings, with all their virtues and flaws, and rather than be upset about the divorce, I was in awe of their beauty as fragile (yet strong) human beings.

I mention this because in 15+ years participating and lurking around Jedi sites, their is a tendency for putting up the "masters" on a pedestal. Of course, sometimes this is done on purpose by the masters to get power or money. In other communities, however, no matter how much the "masters" stress that they are inherently the same as everyone else, the community places a heavy burden of expectations upon them; some communities have collapsed because of the enormous pressure of public opinion and politics taking its toll on leaders' health.

"Controversy" has showed us the more human side of the members on this site: all its members. And the fact that this community is able to accept that humanity is pure gold to me.

I wish that those reconsidering membership would focus on the best parts of us instead of this one episode of extremely bad judgement. I wish brother John would just delete the website instead of persisting. It feels an awful lot like ego. Actually it all does, from every point of view in the discussion. Even mine.

I am tired.

Thank you, Akkarin.

Better with words then me, I think.

As someone who had a moment of doubt, I appreciate this.

Akkarin wrote: Maybe it has even led you to question your continued participation at the Temple?

This is an everyday issue for some of us.

steamboat28 wrote:

Akkarin wrote: Maybe it has even led you to question your continued participation at the Temple?

This is an everyday issue for some of us.

Yet you're still here, so we must be doing something right help us to make things better. That is a service you can provide to other members here who may be harbouring similar reservations.