People calling us crazy...

Healthy debates is one reason I love this community.

I can't control what somebody else says. I can control how I handle it. Honestly, at face value, I see exactly where they're coming from. Sometimes it's worth the conversation and explanation. Sometimes you just know they're never going to see past lightsaber and telekinesis. My faith doesn't hinge on someone else's acceptance.

Criticism and harsh words that come from a place of ignorance is just another test of my patience. I believe that it also helps strengthen my fortitude and gives me an excellent opportunity to be what I claim to be. To be honest I catch myself doing the same thing here and there, which leads to more insight to who I am and what I need to do to better myself. Remember, that the only way to lead is by example. Also some criticism may be worth contemplating.

If one feels offended at the words of another, it is an indication at how unnecessarily serious one is taking themselves. Don't feel the need to be so serious. Just be sincere.

Proteus wrote: If one feels offended at the words of another, it is an indication at how unnecessarily serious one is taking themselves. Don't feel the need to be so serious. Just be sincere.

This is why I will discuss what it means to be a Jedi, but will not be drawn into an argument over it. When an argument starts that is essentially when talks break down. At that point I will agree to disagree and let it go.

Well, Jack, I beg to differ. If one feels hate, I find it perfectly fine to speak or write hatefully or to draw hateful images. If one finds somebody else or what they do ridiculous, one should have the right to belittle them, too. Neither is bullying. Now, are these nice things to do? No. Would I tell a child they should do them? No. Just as I grant anybody the right to think and talk as they please, so I reserve the right to only care as little as I please. Nobody should be silenced on behalf of someone else's feelings - or indeed opinions. If what they laugh at is funny, people will laugh. If they are laughable themselves, people will laugh at them. If their message is hateful, their hate is what we'll hear. Better let them speak for themselves than cut their tongues and speak in their place, as Jestor put it in a different thread recently.
There is no such thing as a statement that nobody perceives as hurtful or spiteful or inflammatory or in some other way undesirable. A sovereign can choose to silence either everybody or only some or nobody. Since both the first and the second option only ever work to everyone's detriment, so we arrive at the third.

Gisteron wrote:

Jack.Troutman wrote: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that does not mean it is ok to belittle or bully someone because their beliefs are different than yours.

Actually, that is exactly what it means. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and everybody is free to voice their feelings and opinions in speech or text or creative art or any combination of the above. However, nobody is entitled to remain uncriticized or to not be ridiculed or indeed to not be laughed at.

contradictory as it might seem, i believe there is truth in both of the ideas expressed above

i feel that being a bully or tyrant is antithetical to the Jedi Archetype (which i do consider jedi a modern interpretation or blending of archetype/s)

but while all people should have the right to express themselves, (even the ones we dont like) all ideas are not equal, and all idealists are not equally benign

and so each must be regarded for what it is

also, direct and honest criticism is not the same as bullying

it can be used as a disguise for bullying

the only criteria i have for distinguishing that is the nature of the criticism and the motive of the criticizer (which is not always possible to know)

does the criticism say "you are irredeemable"
or does it say "this is where youre making a mistake" ?

and is it just an opportunity to vent ones own angst or prove ones own superiority?

in the case of social media, i think simply posting the doctrine and carrying ourselves with some maturity will be enough in the long run

theres plenty of intelligent and even fair minded people out there who, by their own experience, have reason to consider "jedi"as crazy

because theres more than a few crazy people who call themselves jedi lol

its not something i worry about - my hope is that i personally continue to mature in the way i understand the world and the way i carry myself

You are right Gisteron, they are all opinions and as such everyone is entitled to their own.I guess the perception of that opinion is where there is something lost in translation. Thank you. As Jedi we must try to remain open-minded and see things from another point of view. It is good to be reminded of that sometimes.

Thank you for all the responses!

OB1Shinobi wrote: let me put it this way - before we can even get to the part where the logical inconsistancies are explained, we have to establish a baseline of mutual respect and thoughfulness

it takes a level of maturity to do that, and if that maturity isnt there, then there is no point in explaining the more rigorous logical elements, because children want to already be right, rather than to learn, therefore they argue rather than discuss

respect is earned, and earned by demonstration of reasoning, not an entitlement. presupposition of claim without reasoning of claim is intended prejudice. discussion has no room for prejudice

Entropist wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: i agree - i would say that "life is suffering" and that its best to accept the reality of unfairness and hostility as the base line reality - this way we wont be debillitated by it when we encounter it personally.

its such a young movement - each of us, in our own small way, can demonstrate our sanity (or lack thereof lol) and in time we will be "known by our fruits"

i dont believe this is an issue of arguing our case so much as living our beliefs

its good to have articulate and considered answers to questions about ourselves, but the most effective answer in the long run is going to be our reputations: collectively and as individuals

and something like bickering on facebook probably doesnt improve anyones rep lol

which reminds me - social media is mostly stupid and crazy itself

imo it should be handled carefully - like, the way contagious waste is handled carefully lol

its important,eventually anyway, to establish social media presence

but keep in mind that it is the loudest and most obnoxious that are easiest to spot

and its not necessary to "beat them at their own game"

I agree, but what's the difference between social media and any discussion? in the end it's discussion.

people good at discussion focus on reasoning of their ideas. people failing to reason focus on the person because they threaten their reasoning.

respect and trust are earned. logic and reason needs to be the forefront.

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